# Inclusive Language Guide **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 7, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074 "2021-10-07T14:14:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/89 "2021-10-08T10:36:35Z")
Here’s an example that might illuminate the discussion about “sherpa”. Has anyone else ever heard the term “rabbi” in a context having nothing to do with Judaism, but as a reference to someone who is an expert and a decision-maker? For example, “Look guys, we’re stuck. No idea how to proceed. We gotta call the rabbi.” (FWIW, I’m Jewish and I have no problem with that usage. In fact I have problems with this whole “cultural appropriation” business only when it is derogatory, and I don’t see this as such. Making fun of someone by calling him a gypsy, OTOH, is clearly derogatory.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/90 "2021-10-08T11:08:38Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > “Tribe” is a particularly bad one. It seems to arise from a racist assumption that only non-white people had tribes in recent history I agree with this side of things But I’m _also_ aware some people like referring to groups of other people, especially African people, as “tribal” when they mean to imply they are uncivilized, savage and primitive, and hence inferior. And that others, not _intending_ that, also do it unthinkingly. “Tribal” _can be_ [problematic](https://www.learningforjustice.org/magazine/spring-2001/the-trouble-with-tribe), and no amount of “but Scottish clans are tribes” (not really) and “Africans also use the word tribe” (when speaking the English of their colonizers) is going to counter that. There’s a reason anthropologists and ethnologists often steer clear of the term nowadays. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > Also, it’s a term used by a lot of NNT (non-neurotypical people) - of all backgrounds - to describe finding a group of people they feel comfortable with due to similar interests and ways of looking at the world. No other word represents that as well as “tribe” does. And that usage is fine for them. I wouldn’t say I agree that _no_ other word would work as well as “tribe” does, though. I call the “group of people I feel comfortable with due to similar interests and ways of looking at the world” my _kith_, my _kindred_, or my _people_. But then, I live in a place where “tribe” _does_ have strong colonialist associations. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/91 "2021-10-08T11:28:12Z")
As to the whole list - I’m with all the other people who say it’s a mixed bag, with some clear duds like the “brown bag” (hell, we call garbage bags “black bags” here) and the Ninja, some debatable ones, and some that I agree with. And I’m just shaking my head at the idea that “Patronus” is a more _inclusive_ option than “Spirit guide”. I mean, c’mon, _J.K. Rowling_’s made-up word? Don’t make me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/92 "2021-10-08T12:04:06Z")
Only a ninja can call another ninja ninja. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/KVN_0qvuhhw/hqdefault.jpg "Prejudice by Tim Minchin") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw) ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/93 "2021-10-08T12:29:38Z")
I’m an old fart, but I still usually get with the program when it comes to social changes like gender pronouns and such, I think I get it. However, when it comes to the idea of cultural appropriation I’m still stuck in the mud. I’m not on board with the idea that, for example, wearing the traditional clothes of another culture, is offensive. If it were, then a lot of people need to stop wearing three piece suits. (Ooooo I’m so white) Also when it comes to language. I can’t say ninja? I’ve lived in Japan for 25 years as a white guy but I can’t say ninja anymore? I have said it many times and I’m pretty sure no one got offended (can’t be 100% sure though, there are crazy people everywhere). ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/94 "2021-10-08T12:42:53Z")
Seems the list applies more to word use than to the words themselves. Master and Slave are common terms in serial communication systems. They are used without malice. Unix programmers are tribal. Nothing primitive implied there. The term Sherpa, as an aid to success, is positive. Demonizing words is a bad trend. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/95 "2021-10-08T12:49:37Z")
I appreciate the feedback from everybody. I’d just like to point out the designer’s primary aim was more to provide a nice-looking course than to be an authority on proper language use. The final section lists the source material used for reference, and it’s possible the designer was padding out the table to keep it from looking too small. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/96 "2021-10-08T13:06:18Z")
The designers hurt themselves with some of the entries. They devalued their valid points with some really weak ones. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/100 "2021-10-08T13:57:51Z")
As a white cis male I’m offended by this list. Wait, nobody cares? Good. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/101 "2021-10-08T13:59:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’ll also notice that there’s a word I used that this list didn’t consider–just plain **Native**. This is actually the term I’ve landed on. It removed the issues that I’ve seen with “Native Americans” and “American Indians,” while avoiding using “Indian” which some do not like. It is, however, literally wrong. The primary definition of “native” is to be born in a place. Most Canadians are native to Canada, including me; I was born here, I have no other homeland. But I’m not indigenous. It’s a poor word choice. Far superior terms are indigenous, a word that now means “descended from the original, prehistoric inhabitants” and leaves no room for ambiguity, or even better when referring to a specific person or group, the actual word used for that person’s ethnicity - Cree, Mohawk, Navajo, etc. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/102 "2021-10-08T14:02:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > **thorny\_locust** was referring to a previous post, and that post was referring to claims of offense being “stupid.” So I think my rewording (which did not include quotation marks for a reason) was a fair summary. I expect she’ll correct me if I am incorrect. Too busy right now to really deal with this thread; but while I’m not indignant about the rephrasing because indeed you were careful not to phrase it as a direct quote, I do think there’s a difference. “Stupid” implies to me that even discussing the matter shouldn’t be bothered with. 'I don’t think that’s offensive because . . . ’ is a different sort of thing than ‘it’s stupid to even say you think that’s offensive’. Will come back to some of the rest of this if others don’t cover all of what I was going to say, but it’ll probably be late tonight or tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/103 "2021-10-08T14:36:36Z")
> [@LilXMo](#): > > IMO the term cultural appropriation is overused, nay abused. One meaning of the word appropriation is to take or make use without authority or right. Who is the authority, who has the right to use the term? The majority of words in use today are variants of other languages. What some people call cultural appropriation is actually just cultural exchange. Let’s take ninja for example. Hong Kong and Japan have never been shy about sending martial arts movies and other media to the United States hoping for a little success in the American market and some of them featured ninjas. Hell, Kawasaki has been selling ninjas in the United States for decades now. Earlier this week I joked at work that the best part of having to wearing a mask is getting to dress up like a ninja every day. The Japanese are not unwitting victims who had the concept of a ninja stolen from them. They enthusiastically participated in a cultural exchange. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/104 "2021-10-09T01:39:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > You’ll also notice that there’s a word I used that this list didn’t consider–just plain **Native**. This is actually the term I’ve landed on. It removed the issues that I’ve seen with “Native Americans” and “American Indians,” while avoiding using “Indian” which some do not like. > > It is, however, literally wrong. The primary definition of “native” is to be born in a place. Most Canadians are native to Canada, including me; I was born here, I have no other homeland. But I’m not indigenous. It’s a poor word choice. > > Far superior terms are indigenous, a word that now means “descended from the original, prehistoric inhabitants” and leaves no room for ambiguity, or even better when referring to a specific person or group, the actual word used for that person’s ethnicity - Cree, Mohawk, Navajo, etc. You’re not a capital-N Native, however. That term has a different meaning than the lowercase version. Check out [definition 10 on Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/native): > capitalized **:** of, relating to, or being a member of an indigenous people of North or South America **:** [NATIVE AMERICAN](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/native%20american) The term “indigenous” is a valid word. However, as I pointed out, it is much less specific. There are indigenous Asians and Africans and Australians. The word Native, with the capital N, specifically refers to the indigenous peoples who lived in what were later named the Americas. You could say “indigenous Americans,” but then that has the same problem that some Native groups have with “Native American.” The term America was created by white colonial conquerors. Some Native groups object to having that term forced upon them. I don’t disagree that we should be more willing to use more specific terms that Native when they are appropriate. But, like with words like Asian or European, there are times when a more general term is appropriate. And, as far as I can tell, the most widely accepted generic term for _the indigenous peoples who lived in what are now known as the Americas_ is Native. Hence that is what I use. If what is accepted changes, I will try and change with it. It’s pointless for me to try and figure it out in my own head, as I have no say. ---
**Author:** ![LilXMo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lilxmo/32/4225_2.png) [@LilXMo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilXMo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/105 "2021-10-09T02:57:22Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > What some people call cultural appropriation is actually just cultural exchange. Great choice of words, finally explains what I mean. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/106 "2021-10-09T04:44:44Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > However, as I pointed out, it is much less specific. There are indigenous Asians and Africans and Australians. The word Native, with the capital N, specifically refers to the indigenous peoples who lived in what were later named the Americas. It’s not often going to come up that you’re going to use the term “indigenous” in a way that someone doesn’t know if you’re referring to the Huron of Canada or the Tsou from Taiwan. Certainly I’ve never heard of “Native” being specific to North America, and can effortlessly find many examples of it being used of indigenous peoples in other places. The old cliche “the natives are restless” probably originated in New Zealand, and its first use in fiction referred to the “natives” of Africa. For better or worse, in English the word has blown up to mean more than maybe it originally did. Of course one can always just default to what the people in question prefer, which can make it tricky when, in fact, many indigenous people in the USA and Canada use “Indian.” As long as one isn’t being an asshole it’s hard to go too far awry. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/107 "2021-10-09T04:46:33Z")
I will say that it’s nice that people actually care about being inclusive and actually want to avoid inadvertently using words that might hurt other people. It’s best to think of this as a constantly changing process rather than having a final goal to reach and be finished with it. I do think some of the words on the list are pretty silly, but when you’re pushing off into new frontiers you’re going to stumble from time-to-time. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/108 "2021-10-09T09:15:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Of course one can always just default to what the people in question prefer, which can make it tricky when, in fact, many indigenous people in the USA and Canada use “Indian.” As long as one isn’t being an asshole it’s hard to go too far awry. That’s a good approach. Here in Lethbridge, Alberta, we recently had an “Indian pow-wow,” and an “Indian relay race,” both organized by the local First Nations (mostly, the Blood Tribe of southern Alberta), and they didn’t appear to mind the term “Indian” at all. In fact, they themselves used it, perhaps because they were in charge. These events were publicized on radio and in print media using the term “Indian,” attendance was open to all of all races, and took place at the local horse race track, after the day’s thoroughbred racing was over–which, like a good sitcom, invited those of us thoroughbred horseplayers who are non-indiginous, into a culture we might not otherwise see or know about. I was certainly thankful; I learned a few things that day. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/109 "2021-10-09T10:54:32Z")
What exactly is inclusive about not saying “ninja”. Isn’t that exclusive? Are Japanese people going to feel included in society if no one says ninja anymore? I doubt it. Heavily. Can Japanese people say the word cowboy? Or is that a no no too? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/110 "2021-10-09T18:14:51Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > **Instead of:** Aliens, foreigners, or “those people” > **Try:** Immigrants, visitors, or travelers. > **Why:** Offensive Depends on context. Certainly, all three are used to put other people down, but it’s silly to blanket ban the first two, at least. > [@](#): > > **Instead of:** Indian Covered in depth already. > [@](#): > > **Instead of:** Eskimo > **Try:** Indigenous person > **Why:** Offensive The closer you get to groups who actually speak an Eskimo language, the less offensive the term becomes. > [@](#): > > **Instead of:** Blacklist or whitelist; black label or white label; white glove > **Try:** Blocked list, unblocked list, allowed list, private label, or high quality > **Why:** Rooted in racism This one’s just stupid. > [@](#): > > **Instead of:** Brown bag > **Try:** Paper bag > **Why:** Rooted in racism So is this one. > [@](#): > > **Instead of:** Pow wow > **Try:** Meeting or gathering > **Why:** Cultural appropriation > > **Instead of:** Spirit animal or guide > **Try:** Patronus, kindred spirit, inspiration, icon, or doppelganger > **Why:** Cultural appropriation > > **Instead of:** Tribe > **Try:** Family, friends, or group > **Why:** Cultural appropriation > > **Instead of:** Bottom of the totem pole > **Try:** Bottom of the ladder or scale, lower level, or low end > **Why:** Cultural appropriation > > **Instead of:** Ninja > **Try:** Expert, warrior, or whiz > **Why:** Cultural appropriation So are all of these. Cultural appropriation, itself, is perfectly okay almost all of the time, and to consider some of these–especially ninja–to be such is ridiculous. > [@](#): > > **Instead of:** Sherpa > **Try:** Commander, guide, coach, or mastermind > **Why:** Cultural appropriation| I don’t even know what this one’s about. “I’m not your Sherpa” isn’t a phrase I’ve ever heard, but I’m pretty sure it originated as something with a much more offensive word than Sherpa. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074/111 "2021-10-09T21:22:16Z")
I think the problem with “Sherpa” is using the name of an ethnicity to mean “person who carries things”, and it’s compounded by the fact that the role of carrying things was historically discriminatory (nobody ever refers to Hillary as the second person to reach the top of Everest). And I regret that, while I was living in Montana, I never got around to attending the annual pow-wow in town. I’m sure it would have been an interesting experience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inclusive-language-guide/952074.md?page=5)