# Increase In Autism. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479 "2012-09-12T07:23:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/21 "2012-09-13T14:43:20Z")
They’re kids who aren’t being raised to accept the stress of late-capitalist existence. They’ll be useless consumers of resources. Let’s euthanize 'em. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/22 "2012-09-13T14:53:56Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I think the question to examine first is that raised by the chart’s description: > “It is unknown how much, if any, growth came from changes in autism’s prevalence.” > There’s a nearly perfect correspondence between the raise in autism diagnosis and a drop in the diagnosis of Mental Retardation that pretty much explains it all by itself: [http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=158](http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=158) Possibly. Remember, some of the MR diagnoses may be going to other things too, such as learning disability. Another possibility is increased testing and abortion when conditions causing MR are detected. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/23 "2012-09-13T14:55:17Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Those are some pretty amazing charts, and quite convincing. As autism has gone up, retardation has gone down. The same people are just being re-classified. No, we cannot assume that they are simply being reclassified. There may be other reasons. It suggests that possibility, but it’s far from certain. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/24 "2012-09-13T14:56:39Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I suspect it’s almost entirely caused by changes in diagnosis, coupled in some cases with pushy parents demanding an “official” label for their special snowflake. (Viz the huge rise in allergies, ADHD, etc.) So you’re one of those pushy posters who dismisses real, verified medical conditions as nothing but hysteria from pushy parents, huh? You should not be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/25 "2012-09-13T15:14:37Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So you’re one of those pushy posters who dismisses real, verified medical conditions as nothing but hysteria from pushy parents, huh? > > You should not be taken seriously. Do you deny there’s a wave of self-diagnosed allergy and developmental problems, doctor shopping and trusting in “mommy-sense” when no doctor agrees? If not, you’re deluded, and if so, why are you jumping on someone who merely mentioned such as a contributing factor. No one has suggested autism isn’t a verified medical condition, a problem and a tragedy for the parents, but if there isn’t an actual epidemic, and going deeper into the statistics suggest this is the case, then searching for a cause **of the epidemic** isn’t worth while. Knowing a larger than previously thought number of kids have autism spectrum disorders and conjecturing they have related causes does, of course, mean it’s worthwhile looking into those causes, but it doesn’t look like “what are today’s children exposed to that we weren’t” is the first avenue of research we should concentrate on. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/26 "2012-09-13T15:19:43Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So you’re one of those pushy posters who dismisses real, verified medical conditions as nothing but hysteria from pushy parents, huh? > > You should not be taken seriously. That’s not what he means. There are parents who are told after their child is assessed that their child is, at best, borderline on the spectrum. He’s got some of the symptoms, but not enough to satisfy the DSM criteria for an official diagnosis, without which the student is ineligible for special education services. So the parents push to at least get the kid the diagnosis so he can qualify for services. It’s not that parents are forcing an unjustifiable diagnosis on their children, it’s that they’re trying to make their kids a little less borderline so their kids get the help they need. But here is where psychology and educational policy intersect. There is a finite amount of money available for special education services. Some kids require a lot of services, such as an aide, assistive technology, or whatever. Some don’t require that much; maybe they only need the help of a learning support teacher. But no matter the level of services required, every student has to qualify, and qualification is necessarily going to involve an arbitrary cut-off. So some parents whose kids don’t quite make that cut-off advocate in favor of their kids. So what? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/27 "2012-09-13T15:25:50Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Do you deny there’s a wave of self-diagnosed allergy and developmental problems, doctor shopping and trusting in “mommy-sense” when no doctor agrees? If not, you’re deluded That’s where I stop talking to you. I deny that anyone has proven that the increase in allergies and developmental delays isn’t real. Perhaps it’s not, but you have’nt proven it. Internet boards and right-wing radio screamers are not evidence. Show me a study that proves it. In the meantime, we do have a study about ADHD. Careful, this is actual science, you might not like it: Evaluating the Evidence For and Against the Overdiagnosis of ADHD ``` Mark J. Sciutto, PhD Muhlenberg College, Pennsylvania, sciutto@muhlenberg.edu Miriam Eisenberg Muhlenberg College, Pennsylvania ``` Abstract Objective: According to the DSM-IV TR, approximately 3 to 7% of school-age children meet the criteria for ADHD. However, there is a common conception that ADHD is overdiagnosed. The purpose of this article is to evaluate the evidence for and against overdiagnosis. Method: Recent prevalence studies and research on factors affecting diagnostic accuracy were reviewed. For ADHD to be overdiagnosed, the rate of false positives (i.e., children inappropriately diagnosed with ADHD) must substantially exceed the number of false negatives (children with ADHD who are not identified or diagnosed). \*\*Results and Conclusion: Based on the review of prevalence studies and research on the diagnostic process, there does not appear to be sufficient justification for the conclusion that ADHD is systematically overdiagnosed. \*\*Yet, this conclusion is generally not reflected in public perceptions or media coverage of ADHD. Potential explanations for the persistence of the belief in the overdiagnosis of ADHD are offered. (J. of Att. Dis. 2007; 11(2) 106-113) [http://jad.sagepub.com/content/11/2/106.abstract](http://jad.sagepub.com/content/11/2/106.abstract) ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/28 "2012-09-13T15:30:01Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > That’s not what he means. I think it is, but he can tell us for sure. > [@](#): > > There are parents who are told after their child is assessed that their child is, at best, borderline on the spectrum. He’s got some of the symptoms, but not enough to satisfy the DSM criteria for an official diagnosis, without which the student is ineligible for special education services. So the parents push to at least get the kid the diagnosis so he can qualify for services. It’s not that parents are forcing an unjustifiable diagnosis on their children, it’s that they’re trying to make their kids a little less borderline so their kids get the help they need. How do you know that? Have you actually seen this happen? Have you done some kind of survey to see how often it happens? > [@](#): > > But here is where psychology and educational policy intersect. There is a finite amount of money available for special education services. Some kids require a lot of services, such as an aide, assistive technology, or whatever. Some don’t require that much; maybe they only need the help of a learning support teacher. But no matter the level of services required, every student has to qualify, and qualification is necessarily going to involve an arbitrary cut-off. So some parents whose kids don’t quite make that cut-off advocate in favor of their kids. So what? It’s possible that they advocate in favor of their kids, but that doesn’t mean they get what they want. It’s quite possible that this is an explanation for the trend - that more “mild” cases of autism, or other developmental delays, are being diagnosed and labeled in schools. We don’t have any evidence to show that’s true, but it’s a possibility. But I still don’t think that’s what he meant. There’s a whole denial industry out there claiming that ADHD and autism are fake altogether, or wildly overdiangosed for various conspiratorial reasons. I saw that in his comments. But only he can say. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/29 "2012-09-13T15:41:40Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Some of the symptoms:From [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism) Now tell me these aren’t subjective? > > “Less likely,” “smile less,” “respond less,” “less eye contact”? Highly subjective criteria. If you are looking for “symptoms,” you will find them. Actually, I agree that these are subjective. What I am not sure I agree with is your statement that the symptoms of autism are typical of “active children.” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/30 "2012-09-13T15:45:51Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Some of the symptoms:From [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism) Now tell me these aren’t subjective? > > “Less likely,” “smile less,” “respond less,” “less eye contact”? Highly subjective criteria. If you are looking for “symptoms,” you will find them. But that’s just part of the diagnosis. There must be a group of these symptoms, with a certain level of severity or impairment. It’s unlikely that a normal kid who just doesn’t smile much is going to walk out with an autism diagnosis. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/31 "2012-09-13T16:00:00Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > There’s a whole denial industry out there claiming that ADHD and autism are fake altogether, or wildly overdiangosed for various conspiratorial reasons. I saw that in his comments. I think you read that **into** his comments. AFAICT, **Colophon** made it very clear that he thinks the apparent rise in autism rates is caused primarily by _changes_ in diagnosis, not by _over_diagnosis, much less sheer “fakery”. > [@Colophon](#): > > I suspect it’s almost entirely caused by changes in diagnosis, coupled in some cases with pushy parents demanding an “official” label for their special snowflake. (Viz the huge rise in allergies, ADHD, etc.) > > Look at old censuses - they’re full of “imbeciles” and so on. That is, he notes that as diagnoses of autism have gone up, diagnoses of other mental/cognitive/neurological conditions have gone down, and hypothesizes that the diagnosticians are largely replacing the latter by the former. Simple as that. How you managed to jump from that to the conclusion that **Colophon** was “dismiss[ing] real, verified medical conditions as nothing but hysteria from pushy parents”, I can’t quite make out. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/32 "2012-09-13T16:04:45Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I think you read that **into** his comments. AFAICT, **Colophon** made it very clear that he thinks the apparent rise in autism rates is caused primarily by _changes_ in diagnosis, not by _over_diagnosis, much less sheer “fakery”. He clearly said “fakery” was part of it - and that is the part I object to. > [@](#): > > That is, he notes that as diagnoses of autism have gone up, diagnoses of other mental/cognitive/neurological conditions have gone down, and hypothesizes that the diagnosticians are largely replacing the latter by the former. Simple as that. > > How you managed to jump from that to the conclusion that **Colophon** was “dismiss[ing] real, verified medical conditions as nothing but hysteria from pushy parents”, I can’t quite make out. He said: > [@](#): > > coupled in some cases with pushy parents demanding an “official” label for their special snowflake. (Viz the huge rise in allergies, ADHD, etc.) Couldn’t be more clear. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/33 "2012-09-13T16:06:53Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But I still don’t think that’s what he meant. There’s a whole denial industry out there claiming that ADHD and autism are fake altogether, or wildly overdiangosed for various conspiratorial reasons. I saw that in his comments. But only he can say. I didn’t get that impression. Saying that there is no epidemic, to me, means that actual cases of autism/aspergers haven’t increased, it’s just that the diagnoses have increased. We have a lot of ASD (and ADHD), but I haven’t seen anything that convinces me that we have more of it than we used to. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/34 "2012-09-13T16:09:05Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I didn’t get that impression. Saying that there is no epidemic, to me, means that actual cases of autism/aspergers haven’t increased, it’s just that the diagnoses have increased. We have a lot of ASD (and ADHD), but I haven’t seen anything that convinces me that we have more of it than we used to. I think that would be saying that there has always been an epidemic and we’re only now seeing it by diagnosing everyone though. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/35 "2012-09-13T16:21:19Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > He clearly said “fakery” was part of it - and that is the part I object to. No he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/36 "2012-09-13T16:22:42Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > No he didn’t. True, he didn’t use the word “fakery.” Here’s what he said: > [@](#): > > coupled in some cases with pushy parents demanding an “official” label for their special snowflake. (Viz the huge rise in allergies, ADHD, etc.) That’s what I was responding to. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/37 "2012-09-13T16:44:58Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > That’s what I was responding to. That’s what you wildly **over** responded to, by claiming that he was “dismiss[ing] real, verified medical conditions as nothing but hysteria from pushy parents”. To point out, as **Colophon** did, that in _some_ cases parents energetically seek an official diagnostic label in borderline cases of disorders is not at all the same thing as to claim that an entire medical phenomenon is _nothing but_ “hysteria from pushy parents”. The fact that you believe it “couldn’t be more clear” that they **are** the same thing makes it easier to understand how you managed to misinterpret his remarks so drastically. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/38 "2012-09-13T17:39:22Z")
ADHD has probably tripled or more, as a diagnosis requiring treatment. Peanut and nut allergies have also had a field day for increasing popularity. Gluten sensitivity spectrum is gaining traction… In a wealthy society such as ours, at least one thing that happens is that we have more folks to diagnosis autism spectrum instead of “imbecile.” (And hey; I’m personally thankful for that, 😉 although my brother sometimes forgets to use the clinical term for my situation.) We also, for reasons that Colophon mentions, have this idea that labeling something with an official label is, all by itself, more reassuring than some nondescript term. And of course, there’s big money, along with the chance of actual results, in coming up with specific treatment regimens and programs–some of which are actually beneficial. You can’t optimally treat until you have an optimally correct diagnosis. Nearly everything exists on a spectrum, so I think what is mostly happening is that we just include more and more people into Something based on the above factors. Finally, and more cynically, we love to be special and we don’t like to be thought of as dysfunctional. So you feel crappy all the time and don’t accomplish anything; I have Idiopathic Dysphoria. Or whatever the Label DuJour is. My kid’s a little weird; yours has Autism Spectrum (and of course, by formal definition and testing, he might). What I don’t think is happening is that our gene pool is rapidly changing for the worse or some sneaky environmental cause is at work. But try telling that to folks who don’t want their genes to be sub-par. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/39 "2012-09-13T17:41:40Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > That’s what you wildly **over** responded to, by claiming that he was “dismiss[ing] real, verified medical conditions as nothing but hysteria from pushy parents”. That’s exactly what he was saying. How you get something else out of that is beyond me. Perhaps it’s not what he intended, but only he can say. > [@](#): > > To point out, as **Colophon** did, that in _some_ cases parents energetically seek an official diagnostic label in borderline cases of disorders is not at all the same thing as to claim that an entire medical phenomenon is _nothing but_ “hysteria from pushy parents”. > > The fact that you believe it “couldn’t be more clear” that they **are** the same thing makes it easier to understand how you managed to misinterpret his remarks so drastically. Let’s not get into yet another “he didn’t say exactly this or that and he didn’t use exactly that word” thing. Forget everything else I’ve said. I object to what he said. Let’s move on from there, and wait for him to respond. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479/40 "2012-09-13T17:47:03Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > ADHD has probably tripled or more, as a diagnosis requiring treatment. No it hasn’t. It grew by 66 percent over a 10-year period, according to this article. > **[Diagnosis of ADHD on the Rise](https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2012/03/adhd-diagnosis-pediatrics/)** > > CHICAGO --- The number of American children leaving doctors’ offices with an attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) diagnosis has risen 66 percent in 10 years, according to a new Northwestern Medicine study. Over this same timeframe,... Don’t overstate the case please. > [@](#): > > In a wealthy society such as ours, at least one thing that happens is that we have more folks to diagnosis autism spectrum instead of “imbecile.” (And hey; I’m personally thankful for that, 😉 although my brother sometimes forgets to use the clinical term for my situation.) Hahaha! > [@](#): > > Nearly everything exists on a spectrum, so I think what is mostly happening is that we just include more and more people into Something based on the above factors. Possibly. But so what? Does that mean they don’t belong there? Was the old standard better? Perhaps lots of people with these conditions were just going untreated and suffering before. > [@](#): > > Finally, and more cynically, we love to be special and we don’t like to be thought of as dysfunctional. So you feel crappy all the time and don’t accomplish anything; I have Idiopathic Dysphoria. Or whatever the Label DuJour is. My kid’s a little weird; yours has Autism Spectrum (and of course, by formal definition and testing, he might). That’s just insulting to people with the conditions and their parents. > [@](#): > > What I don’t think is happening is that our gene pool is rapidly changing for the worse or some sneaky environmental cause is at work. Fine. Show some actual scientific basis for your belief, and we’ll talk. Otherwise, it’s nothing more than speculation. Which is fine, except your speculation is based on other unsupported and insulting ideas in this post. > [@](#): > > But try telling that to folks who don’t want their genes to be sub-par. More petty insults. People who have conditions like this aren’t just insecure or vain or inferior. Enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increase-in-autism/634479.md?page=3)