# Increased negativity towards more recent movies/TV shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 11, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907 "2022-03-11T16:59:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/21 "2022-03-12T03:47:43Z")
I think nerds tend to become more emotionally invested in their particular franchise. So they tend to overreact when a sequel or prequel or whatever doesn’t live up to their particular expectations. Particularly if it appears like a studio is just making sequels as a cash grab (Star Wars) or just sort of half-assing to get to an ending so people can move on in their career (Game of Thrones) Personally, I really like the MCU. For all its flaws, I like the idea that they have created a (mostly) internally consistent alternate history where all these superhero stories can take place and the history carries over from movie to movie in interesting ways. > [@ParallelLines](#): > > > [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > > > IMHO this gets to the heart of the issue. Some people want more of the same and get upset if a sequel is substantially different in tone (Picard is a good example). The opposite is also true. If a sequel is too similar to a previous work (Star Wars Episode VII) then the people who wanted something new complain because it was “just a retread.” > > FTB did a great job of bringing up the ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’. I wanted to give an example that hits both sides of the equation in a genre film: The Riddick Movies. > > The first, Pitch Black, was a solid, if not exceptional action horror movie which was a ton of fun for me and most of my friends. Sure, it wasn’t perfect, but it was a lot of fun. > > Chronicles of Riddick, the sequel, went in a slightly different direction, with human enemies and efforts at a more grand arc, and a lot of people didn’t like it, despite being arguably better in all technical specs than the first. > > The third, Riddick, went the route brought up by FTB - it was superficially the same plot and setting as # 1, with the most minor differences, and people almost universally hated it because everyone (correctly) said it was a repeat of the firsts formula. > > -shrugs- > > But I still like all three (and the game, and the animated bridge ‘movie’), because I like the character, and they’re still ‘fun’ movies, even if they are not anything I’d call groundbreaking. The first Pitch Black was a solid film that remade the “Aliens” concept in a new and interesting way. Chronicles of Riddick was also pretty solid attempt to expand the “Riddickverse”. I’ll keep watching whenever I happen across it on some random Sunday afternoon. Riddick 3…I just thought it was “not good”. Interestingly, in the early 2000s, Vin Diesel had the opportunity to choose one of three franchises - Riddick, XXX, and Fast and Furious - and he went with Riddick (Ice Cube taking on the Xander Cage role and not appearing in FF2). Although I suppose it doesn’t matter now as IMDB says he’s on Fast and Furious 10, another Riddick film (Furya), and even a fourth XXX. Plus he has all that “I am Groot” money. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/22 "2022-03-12T16:36:54Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I feel the same way. With Voyager and Enterprise, the problem was the characters. It was still Star Trek, the same familiar world I enjoyed in TNG and DS9, it’s just that the characters were less interesting (other than The Doctor and 7 of 9). The new Star Treks got away from Gene Rodenberry’s utopian ideal for our future, and thus turned off fans like me who wanted more of the same, with interesting characters. I never saw ToS as a utopia. The original series presented a Star Trek that was _better_ than 1960s America. We had a crew that included an Asian, an African, and a Russian all working together but they were all fundamentally human with flaws they had to overcome. Gene hated _The Wrath of Khan,_ a movie regarded as one of the best Star Trek has to offer, and he had some odd ideas in regards to TNG. He didn’t want there to be any conflict between any of the main characters, which is just boring, and I can’t help but notice how smug our Federation pals can be at times in a way Kirk, Spock, and McCoy never were. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/23 "2022-03-12T16:54:58Z")
In addition to all the other factors cited, there is an additional one operating. There is, out there, a group of folks who attack tv shows/films which are made with a diverse cast. And they do so regardless of any objective merit (or lack thereof) of the work itself. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/24 "2022-03-12T17:49:58Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > > > The new Star Treks got away from Gene Rodenberry’s utopian ideal for our future, and thus turned off fans like me who wanted more of the same, with interesting characters. > > I never saw ToS as a utopia. The original series presented a Star Trek that was _better_ than 1960s America. Maybe “optimistic” or “hopeful” is a better word than “utopian.” The world of classic Star Trek isn’t perfect, but it is the kind of future we might actually want to live in. > [@Odesio](#): > > He didn’t want there to be any conflict between any of the main characters, which is just boring I wouldn’t want it to be _about_ conflict between any of the main characters. There are shows like that, that are pirmarily about the interpersonal conflicts and drama between the regular characters, but that’s not what I look for from Star Trek. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/25 "2022-03-12T18:53:59Z")
Welp, I tried the Magnum PI reboot last night. Note I hardly ever watch network TV anymore, outside of sports… When I able to correctly finger the perp 10 minutes in, that kind of lazy writing won’t induce me to watch it again, reboot or no reboot. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/26 "2022-03-12T22:27:15Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I wouldn’t want it to be _about_ conflict between any of the main characters. There are shows like that, that are pirmarily about the interpersonal conflicts and drama between the regular characters, but that’s not what I look for from Star Trek. I wouldn’t want it to be about conflict either but you have to have some to make for an interesting story. Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were not always in agreement with one another. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/27 "2022-03-13T02:00:47Z")
I’m a doctor, dammit, not a cocker spaniel/vegan/refrigerator/dentist. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/28 "2022-03-13T18:20:49Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I wouldn’t want it to be about conflict either but you have to have some to make for an interesting story. Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were not always in agreement with one another. Yeah, typically there was debate among the core cast (and sometimes a guest star that was on their side) in addition to the antagonist/problem of the week. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/29 "2022-03-13T18:48:47Z")
My problem with most of the movies and shows mentioned is the lack of original thought, original material. Reboots of everything, endlessly milking the original art of everything that it has, and keeping going until the box office takes drop off. I enjoyed comic books when I was young. Does every one need a movie? Every minor character need development? Drive this shit into the ground until it is gone? Star Trek TOS was good, TNG was good, many movies of both were enjoyable. But they will keep wringing every possible thing out of them. Star Wars universe, same thing. The writing isn’t good, the ideas aren’t good, but they will sell. Reboot Hawaii 5.0, reboot Magnum PI, reboot every original thought because there are no more original thoughts to be exploited. No creativity, no art, no innovation, just pick something that worked in the past and recreate it in a new, worse, form. No fucking new ideas anywhere, only old ideas to be destroyed with a reboot. Lets reboot The Godfather. We can make a movie about the backstory of every character, even the minor ones that no one cares about. There aught to be 30 or 40 movies in there. I am afraid that someone in Hollywood will read this post and wring every last drop out of that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/30 "2022-03-13T19:13:33Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > My problem with most of the movies and shows mentioned is the lack of original thought, original material. Reboots of everything, endlessly milking the original art of everything that it has, and keeping going until the box office takes drop off. I agree, but I also understand why they do it this way. It’s a lot harder to market something that’s completely original. If a movie or TV show is based on something that people are already familiar with, the mere fact that it’s being made will get talked about, and people will know (or think they know) what it is and why they would want to see it. That’s a double-edged sword, because when audiences go in with expectations and those expectations aren’t met, you get negativity. But studios would probably rather have that negativity than have a movie or show that nobody watches because nobody knows or cares that it exists. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/31 "2022-03-13T22:23:46Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Are shows/movies in these areas worse now, or are we more jaded? Neither. It’s just that nerd genre is now the mainstream moneymaker, therefore there is a lot more product of it out there, and amazingly half of it is below average, only one in ten above the 90%ile in quality. Most stuff that comes out of all genres will get many giving it thumbs down. I’d submit that the product class you reference has more love thrown its way than shade. Mind you not every product is for everyone. Peacemaker wouldn’t be everyone’s thing but it earned lots of love. Raised by Wolves on HBOMax is too weird for many but has an enthused following and not getting much hate. Reboots and sequels though are tricky. They are done because the originals earned much love. That’s a two edged sword. It means more will give it a chance because of the love they have for the original. And it means it will be held to comparison with the original, often remembered as better than it was. And the choice sometimes is between playing it safe to appeal to the biggest numbers, or taking chances doing something that some may love but others will hate. (See WandaVision). But a dud is a dud. (See Book of Boba Fett.) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/32 "2022-03-13T22:24:04Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > No fucking new ideas anywhere This is a common refrain, but not actually true. The sad reality is there are lots of new things every year that do not do very well, especially the ones trying to do something unique. If they get a second season at all, a third is highly unlikely, and none get a satisfying conclusion. The simple truth is, there’s safety in sequels, reboots, and adaptations. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/33 "2022-03-13T22:33:53Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > The simple truth is, there’s safety in sequels, reboots, and adaptations. And the genre is very expensive to produce. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/34 "2022-03-13T22:46:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > obody needs a prequel to Tolkien but Amazon is pending half a billion dollars on one. > > Will the loudest voices scream if the series doesn’t live up to their ridiculously high expectations? Probably. Nobody seems to be asking why anyone should have high expectations in the first place, though. I want to see it. And yes, the haters will hate. True, _Star Wars A New Hope_ was fantastic and lifechanging almost. But 1, 2, &3 were okay, fun and watchable, even though hardly great. No reason to pile on the hate. Sure, if you wanna rate _A New Hope_ as A+++++ and the three prequels as C+, okay. But no reason to hate them. For example: > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Is _The Phantom Menace_ a steaming bowl of crap compared to AFI 100 films, for instance? Yes, it is. No, it is not. Does it belong in the top 100? Hardly. Probably not even in the top 1000. But at worst it is mediocre. And that list? They include GWtW, a very racist and southern apologist film, that belongs on the list of 100 _worst_ films I think LotR was perhaps the greatest movie trilogy ever done. And I _just knew_ the haters were gonna hate The Hobbit, as sure as the sun sets in the West. Now, yes, making Jackson turn the Hobbit into a trilogy was a huge mistake, but The Hobbit films have many enjoyable moments, and I can fast forward through the bad parts. > [@Odesio](#): > > I wouldn’t want it to be about conflict either but you have to have some to make for an interesting story. Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were not always in agreement with one another. No, but usually it was more friendly banter. They truly care for each other. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/35 "2022-03-13T22:57:56Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Peacemaker wouldn’t be everyone’s thing but it earned lots of love. That’s an example of a great one. So is _Doom Patrol_ and the animated _Harley Quinn_. But on the other hand I can’t stomach anything in the CW-verse, which like most CW-content is just soap opera about the relationships of improbably attractive affluent twenty-somethings with a veneer of genre painted on top. But in a broader view, bad reviews are just more _fun_ than good ones. Anyone remember the _Battlefeld Earth_ reviewapalooza? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/36 "2022-03-13T23:00:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > > Is _The Phantom Menace_ a steaming bowl of crap compared to AFI 100 films, for instance? Yes, it is. > > No, it is not. Does it belong in the top 100? Hardly. Probably not even in the top 1000. But at worst it is mediocre. My rebuttal is this. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/KHCyDxxXog4/maxresdefault.jpg "Eopie fart") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHCyDxxXog4) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/37 "2022-03-14T04:15:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, but usually it was more friendly banter. They truly care for each other. They did. But you can have conflict with people that you care about without it destroying the friendship. There was a TNG episode where Data was in command with Worf acting as his first officer. Throughout the episode, Worf kept making snide comments and undermining Data’s authority until called out on it. Data addresses this bad behavior from his first officer and says something like, “I hope this hasn’t ended our friendship.” Worf acknowledges that he was in the wrong, apologies, and says that he would like to continue being Data’s friend. It was a great character building moment for both of them and something we never would have seen if the rules about conflict between main characters was still in place. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/38 "2022-03-14T13:02:29Z")
That’s a great scene. It also puts the lie to the whole “Data doesn’t have emotions” thing. I defy you to watch that scene and tell me that Data is not royally pissed off. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/39 "2022-03-14T13:37:49Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Absolutely. Most of the online voices have no memory of a world in which you were scorned for liking science fiction, comic books, superheroes, fantasy, all the things that are billion-dollar properties in today’s culture. Adults were supposed to grow up and go beyond such kids stuff. > [@msmith537](#): > > I think nerds tend to become more emotionally invested in their particular franchise. So they tend to overreact when a sequel or prequel or whatever doesn’t live up to their particular expectations. These two quotes cut to the heart of it. I’ve been a nerd for a while now (I’m 49, and remember watching _Star Trek_ in syndication long before ST:TMP came out, for example), and I think that it was just so socially unacceptable and underground that we were just happy to have ANYTHING that was relatively high profile that catered to our needs. I saw this change through the course of my childhood and adolescence; Star Wars really cracked the shell wide open- enough so that another science fiction movie (“ET”) was wildly successful, both critically and commercially- enough so to move Star Wars out of that spot. This sort of thing has continued to the present day, where science fiction/fantasy themes are so commonplace that they’re not even “genre” anymore- shows like “The Handmaid’s Tale”, “Game of Thrones”, “Killing Eve”, “The Leftovers”, “Rick and Morty”, “Black Mirror”, etc… have all been wildly popular in the past decade. So it’s not at all surprising that when you combine this surfeit of riches with the inherent nerdy tendency to perseverate on the minutiae of a TV show/book series/movie series, that they’ll find fault. I mean, a lot of these things aren’t _bad_, they’re just not 100% faithful to the books or comics or whatever, and these folks have so much invested in their particular franchise that they’re very protective of it, and very critical of what they perceive as deviation from the way it should be. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907/40 "2022-03-14T13:51:00Z")
> [@bump](#): > > > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > > Absolutely. Most of the online voices have no memory of a world in which you were scorned for liking science fiction, comic books, superheroes, fantasy, all the things that are billion-dollar properties in today’s culture. Adults were supposed to grow up and go beyond such kids stuff. > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > I think nerds tend to become more emotionally invested in their particular franchise. So they tend to overreact when a sequel or prequel or whatever doesn’t live up to their particular expectations. > > These two quotes cut to the heart of it. I’ve been a nerd for a while now (I’m 49, and remember watching _Star Trek_ in syndication long before ST:TMP came out, for example), and I think that it was just so socially unacceptable and underground that we were just happy to have ANYTHING that was relatively high profile that catered to our needs. I saw this change through the course of my childhood and adolescence; Star Wars really cracked the shell wide open- enough so that another science fiction movie (“ET”) was wildly successful, both critically and commercially- enough so to move Star Wars out of that spot. This sort of thing has continued to the present day, where science fiction/fantasy themes are so commonplace that they’re not even “genre” anymore- shows like “The Handmaid’s Tale”, “Game of Thrones”, “Killing Eve”, “The Leftovers”, “Rick and Morty”, “Black Mirror”, etc… have all been wildly popular in the past decade. I’m the same age. I don’t recall Star Trek or science fiction being “socially unacceptable”. Star Wars came out when we were 5. ST: TMP when we were 7. For our generation, I think you would be hard pressed to find people who didn’t watch at least a little bit of Star Trek or Star Wars. Now if you are talking about a specific subculture of people who collect action figures as adults and cosplay, yeah, that is something that more or less started with Star Wars and was looked at as a bit odd until relatively recently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increased-negativity-towards-more-recent-movies-tv-shows/960907.md?page=3)