# Increasingly, people are being killed over smaller and smaller things **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 5, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613 "2023-05-05T14:21:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/1 "2023-05-05T14:21:43Z")
Not sure if this is GD or IMHO (mods can decide), but there were two excellent op-eds that came out recently: > **[Opinion | Making People Uncomfortable Can Now Get You Killed](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/04/opinion/jordan-neely-killed.html)** > > People who deem themselves judge, jury and executioner walk among us, and we have no real way of knowing when they will turn on us. > **[Why Are You All So Eager to Kill?](https://jalopnik.com/why-are-you-all-so-eager-to-kill-1850399950)** > > A man on the subway. A girl in the wrong driveway. What could have been a conversation ended with the end of someone's life. What the hell is wrong with people? A man getting choked to death just for shouting loudly on a New York subway, a woman shot because she was in a car that pulled into the wrong driveway, a black teen shot for going to the wrong address in Kansas City, a family that was gunned down because they asked their neighbor to stop shooting his gun and making noise - the threshold for what “justifies” killing someone is getting incredibly low. On a personal note, I’m realizing now that I was lucky that I wasn’t shot seven years ago when I accidentally walked into the wrong house (had been given a confusing address by a friend.) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/2 "2023-05-05T14:28:36Z")
Dennis Miller had it right in one of his rants over 20 years ago: the US national motto used to be “E Pluribis Unum”, but eventually became “Go Fuck Yourself!” Reflexive opposition to anyone, for any reason, has become the default setting for a huge segment of your society. Pretty much everything you can point to that’s gone badly in the last 30-40 years can be attributed to this. These days, it’s not just a default setting, but something that is actually praised by a whole hell of a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/3 "2023-05-05T14:29:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > A man getting choked to death just for shouting loudly on a New York subway, I’ve seen reports that, no, he was also throwing things at the riders. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/4 "2023-05-05T14:32:13Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Dennis Miller had it right in one of his rants over 20 years ago: the US national motto used to be “E Pluribis Unum”, but eventually became “Go Fuck Yourself!” > > Reflexive opposition to anyone, for any reason, has become the default setting for a huge segment of your society. Pretty much everything you can point to that’s gone badly in the last 30-40 years can be attributed to this. **These days, it’s not just a default setting, but something that is actually praised by a whole hell of a lot of people.** It seems like it really got going sometime around 2015, especially that last part. As for why it’s happening (the part about it being accepted, even praised, by other people), I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/5 "2023-05-05T14:35:37Z")
Here is an entire section of a legal humor blogger’s take on people killing one another for reasons stupid, ignorant, or both. He’s got plenty of entries stretching back 15 years. **[Good Reasons to Kill – Lowering the Bar](https://www.loweringthebar.net/category/good-reasons-to-kill)** I will say that @Horatius is on to something very valid. Reflexive oppositional / defiant behavior has become rampant. There is actually a DSM disorder for that. I doubt most of these people were born that way, but they’ve certainly been groomed into exhibiting the symptoms even if they lack the disease. > **[Oppositional defiant disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder)** > > Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is listed in the DSM-5 under Disruptive, impulse-control, and conduct disorders and defined as "a pattern of angry/irritable mood, argumentative/defiant behavior, or vindictiveness". This behavior is usually targeted toward peers, parents, teachers, and other authority figures. Unlike conduct disorder (CD), those with ODD do not show patterns of aggression towards people or animals, destruction of property, theft, or deceit. It has certain links to Oppositiona... ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/6 "2023-05-05T14:37:41Z")
People who don’t feel they have any control over their own lives can get a fleeting sense of empowerment by depriving _others_\* of their’s. \*American culture now seems to be mostly about identifying and demonizing people who look or believe different as the _other_. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/7 "2023-05-05T14:38:52Z")
I doubt there’s really a trend here. Just more coverage. Road rage incidences have been happening for decades, people kill each other in bar fights for very little reason, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/8 "2023-05-05T14:43:29Z")
This. I’m unaware of any hard evidence saying that overall, we’re killing others _more often_ than in other eras, per capita. There are just so many more people and so much more coverage of what goes on around the world than there used to be. Not that it’s not horrifying, not that it’s not a symptom of personal and societal dysfunction, etc. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/9 "2023-05-05T14:44:10Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I doubt there’s really a trend here. Just more coverage. Years ago there were a bunch of incidents over a short period of time where postal workers “went postal”. Then it seemed to stop being a thing. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/10 "2023-05-05T15:18:31Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@Velocity](#): > > > > A man getting choked to death just for shouting loudly on a New York subway, > > I’ve seen reports that, no, he was also throwing things at the riders. Cite, please? I’ve checked a batch of stories, and the only report I’ve seen of his throwing anything said that he threw his jacket down on the floor – not at anybody. (And even if he was throwing things: do you think it’s proper to choke somebody to death for throwing things, after he’s already been clearly prevented from throwing any more?) ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/11 "2023-05-05T15:22:18Z")
Agreed about your general point, @Velocity . But I’d take issue with including Jordan Neely (the man on the subway) on that list. It’s easy to say, as Roxane Gay of the _New York Times_ does, that he was merely yelling and “causing discomfort.” A fuller story will emerge with time, but the people on that subway car, it seems to me, had reason to believe their lives were in danger. Read the [comments](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/04/opinion/jordan-neely-killed.html#commentsContainer) on that opinion piece. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/12 "2023-05-05T15:23:18Z")
Oh, it still happens. There was one in Chattanooga last year. Anyhow, a full list: > **[List of postal killings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_postal_killings)** > > Postal killings in various countries resulted in fatalities that have occurred on the properties of postal systems or related issues/events. The main sections are divided by countries. Events are listed in chronological order. I don’t know if they’re any more or less a “thing.” 2006 and 2017 had three such incidents each, so they bunched up there like they did in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/13 "2023-05-05T15:30:56Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Cite, please? > > I’ve checked a batch of stories, and the only report I’ve seen of his throwing anything said that he threw his jacket down on the floor – not at anybody. I’ll start [here,](https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/1653535735385845760) I guess: _“Disturbed man with 40 priors threatening and throwing trash at strangers on Manhattan subway dies — after chokehold restraint by former Marine”_ — but if you want a better cite, I’ll try to find one for you; and if you want an even better one, I’ll keep on keeping on. > [@](#): > > And even if he was throwing things: do you think it’s proper to choke somebody to death for throwing things, after he’s already been clearly prevented from throwing any more? I think it can be proper to put him in that hold, at which point you figure he’s prevented from throwing any more; and you can then release him from that hold, at which point he’s — no longer prevented from throwing any more? Plus maybe it’s harder to put him in a hold a second time, now that he knows how someone intends to interrupt him if he intends to keep throwing stuff at people? So I’m not sure it’s as cut-and-dried as you’re making it out to be. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/14 "2023-05-05T15:42:26Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > So I’m not sure it’s as cut-and-dried as you’re making it out to be. Yeah, sometimes murdering people for causing a scene is the only option. OP may have a point. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/15 "2023-05-05T15:44:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yeah, sometimes murdering people for causing a scene is the only option. Killing someone for _causing a scene?_ No. For touching people without their consent? For, what, assault, battery, you name it? Yeah, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/16 "2023-05-05T16:08:24Z")
“Rights” has always been an attractive and popular guy, but he used to have a sister named “Responsibility” who would keep his ego in check. Somewhere along the line, his sister disappeared and, consequently, he has gotten out of control. All he sees is his needs/desires/viewpoints, and no else’s is important. In fact, they have become offensive and anger him to no end. I think there has been a slow but steady breakdown of social order for quite some time now and, if this doesn’t change, I don’t see our society as being sustainable. There is no respect for authority. In fact, criticizing the police seems to be more popular on social media than stopping the criminals themselves and controlling crime. I think a lot of people feel this way, and I think the fear that has produced is feeding the Republican Right. Chaos often results in a reactionary response that produces the extreme opposite. Because of the treaty of Versailles among other things, Germany was a chaotic mess after WWI. We witnessed the result. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/17 "2023-05-05T16:44:16Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > For touching people without their consent? For, what, assault, battery, you name it? Yeah, maybe. Seriously? _Killing someone_ for these things? Killing someone is a really big thing. And really final. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/18 "2023-05-05T16:48:53Z")
Yeah, the guy is dead because he was having a crisis and was crying out for help. The justifications for this are really depressing. It really feels like compassion for other humans is becoming incredibly rare in our society. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/19 "2023-05-05T16:51:58Z")
He was having a crisis and he was black. That is a legitimate reason to kill him for a very large segment of America. Full blown white nationalism is on the March in America. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/20 "2023-05-05T16:52:34Z")
Yeah justified killing seems to be on a huge upswing. For certain kinds of people only… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613.md?page=2)