# Increasingly, people are being killed over smaller and smaller things **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 5, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613 "2023-05-05T14:21:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2023, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/141 "2023-05-06T23:56:52Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Where is this “dehumanize certain groups” stuff coming from? I’m saying I’m in favor of doing it (a) to a human, (b) not because of what group that human is in. That doesn’t make your position better-That makes it _worse_. Throwing a tomato or _maybe_ throwing garbage does not, in any fucking way, justify murdering someone. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/142 "2023-05-06T23:57:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That doesn’t make your position better-That makes it _worse_. But it makes your claim _false_. Why are you making false claims? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/143 "2023-05-06T23:58:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Throwing a tomato or _maybe_ throwing garbage does not, in any fucking way, justify murdering someone I’m Donald Trump and I _disapprove_ this message: “If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them. I’ll pay the legal fees,” – Donald Trump at an April 2017 Iowa caucus rally. And, y’know: when you “knock the crap out of” somebody, you could kill them. ETA: and, apparently, they don’t actually have to _throw_ the tomato. You just have to have a credible fear that they could. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/144 "2023-05-07T00:00:28Z")
I’m not making any false claims. The more important question is why you support people being killed for throwing a tomato or (maybe) throwing garbage? There is no possible way it can be called “self defense”, so why do it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/145 "2023-05-07T00:02:41Z")
If I ask the question, “What is the minimum action required needed to justify killing another human being?”, I think the answers would be very depressing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/146 "2023-05-07T00:11:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The more important question is why you support people being killed for throwing a tomato or (maybe) throwing garbage? There is no possible way it can be called “self defense”, so why do it? I’m against _humans_ throwing things at people without their consent — and I take that seriously enough that I’d support changing the law to make it illegal for humans to do it, if society didn’t already see it that way as well — and I’m okay, on a case-by-case basis, with _personally_ stopping such humans by physically restraining such humans, even though that might kill them; and I would want a jury to okay me doing so; and, if I were on a jury, I figure I’d see things the same way if someone else did likewise, regardless of what group they’re in. And that’s why I would advise humans not to engage in that activity, or in various other such activities that we take seriously enough to make illegal. Why do you think the solution needs to involve dehumanizing certain groups? As far as I can tell, it’s entirely possible for other people to reach the same conclusions that I did while constantly and consistently noting that _hey, we’re talking about humans._ ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/147 "2023-05-07T00:21:15Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m against _humans_ throwing things at people without their consent — and I take that seriously enough that I’d support changing the law to make it illegal for humans to do it, if society didn’t already see it that way as well — and I’m okay, on a case-by-case basis, with _personally_ stopping such humans by physically restraining such humans, even though that might kill them; … Would you also ironically and nonsensically describe yourself as “Pro life”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/148 "2023-05-07T00:21:35Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Would you also ironically and nonsensically describe yourself as “Pro life”? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/149 "2023-05-07T00:21:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > and I’m okay, on a case-by-case basis, with _personally_ stopping such humans by physically restraining such humans, even though that might kill them; Choking someone for 15 minutes is a death sentence, and if you have been trained how to do it you damn well _know_ it, which means that former Marine intend to kill that homeless person. You keep trying to force euphemisms like “stopping”, “holding” etc. into a conversation about possible murder-Are you doing it to justify it to yourself, because it sure doesn’t justify it to me? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/150 "2023-05-07T00:22:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > and I’m okay, on a case-by-case basis, with _personally_ stopping such humans by physically restraining such humans, even though that might kill them This is _bonkers._ But it’s a very good illustration of the subject of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/151 "2023-05-07T00:23:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You keep trying to force euphemisms like “stopping”, “holding” etc. into a conversation about possible murder-Are you must be doing it to justify it to yourself, because it sure doesn’t justify it to me? It’s not a euphemism; if anything, I’m trying to _emphasize_ that, when you set out to physically stop someone or immobilize them or restrain them or whatever, you’re running the risk of killing them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/152 "2023-05-07T00:23:54Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m against _humans_ throwing things at people without their consent And I’m against killing them for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/153 "2023-05-07T00:26:20Z")
Only if you have nothing in your ethical background that tells you when to stop. _Fifteen_ _Fucking_ _Minutes_ ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/154 "2023-05-07T01:17:11Z")
Still a pretty low bar for summary execution. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/155 "2023-05-07T03:32:55Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Would a law-abiding citizen be entitled to kill someone for throwing a tomato at them? > > I believe a law-abiding citizen could well be, uh, “entitled” to use force to immobilize them, which could well kill them, which is yet another reason why you shouldn’t throw a tomato at a law-abiding citizen. Your position actually appears to be that you think you’d be entitled to kill somebody for throwing a tomato at you. I don’t believe that I can properly respond to that in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/156 "2023-05-07T04:00:08Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Do you have _any_ idea what you are talking about here? _Everything_ you said in this statement is wildly incorrect. You are right. I was thinking the Martin/Zimmerman case. Still Chauvin did have racial issues, this one does not, ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/157 "2023-05-07T11:14:29Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Why people care more about punishing the guy who interrupts a crime than the guy who commits a crime interests me a little That’s simply because the interrupter’s crime is way more serious than the committer’s. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/158 "2023-05-07T12:43:57Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > the idea of just sitting quietly and waiting for the situation to end is what the 911 hijackers counted on. Prior to 911, had terrorists ever used a fully laden airliner as a bomb? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/159 "2023-05-07T13:11:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Only if you have nothing in your ethical background that tells you when to stop. > _Fifteen_ > _Fucking_ > _Minutes_ That’s what I don’t get here. 15 minutes - that’s like five stops. If, for whatever reason, I was forced to restrain someone on a subway, I would have gotten him off the train as quickly as possible and shouted for a cop (or to be honest, I’d probably just have thrown him on the platform and gotten back on the train). What was this guy’s game plan? Just hold him until… what? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613/160 "2023-05-07T13:13:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If, for whatever reason, I was forced to restrain someone on a subway, I would have gotten him off the train as quickly as possible and shouted for a cop (or to be honest, I’d probably just have thrown him on the platform and gotten back on the train). What was this guy’s game plan? Just hold him until… what? Until cops arrive? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/increasingly-people-are-being-killed-over-smaller-and-smaller-things/983613.md?page=9)