# Incredible: Colorado Family Tries to Regain Home From Occupiers **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 18, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637 "2012-07-18T17:11:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/21 "2012-07-23T02:07:28Z")
Should I ever come home from vacation to find unauthorized visitors, they won’t be there long. There won’t be any discussion of paperwork, just muzzle flashes and a call to the cops. My assumption is and always will be that anyone sneaking/breaking/entering my house is there to harm me or my family, and will be dealt with accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/22 "2012-07-23T02:21:15Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In the article, it is said that the police won’t interfere because it is a civil matter. > > I say they string up the real estate agent. Around here it’s the sheriff’s deputies that enforce civil matters like evictions, but I think there’s a fee for their services. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/23 "2012-07-23T02:25:22Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Around here it’s the sheriff’s deputies that enforce civil matters like evictions, but I think there’s a fee for their services. I’d gladly have paid a fee, less expensive than paying their utilities and missing three months rent. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/24 "2012-07-23T03:13:56Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Should I ever come home from vacation to find unauthorized visitors, they won’t be there long. There won’t be any discussion of paperwork, just muzzle flashes and a call to the cops. > > My assumption is and always will be that anyone sneaking/breaking/entering my house is there to harm me or my family, and will be dealt with accordingly. I’d hope the fact that in this case it appears that brilliant and nuanced plan would lead to your mudering two innocent people who were there because they were victims of fraud would lead you to reconsider that strategy ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/25 "2012-07-23T04:04:03Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I’d hope the fact that in this case it appears that brilliant and nuanced plan would lead to your mudering two innocent people who were there because they were victims of fraud would lead you to reconsider that strategy No, you’re missing the beauty of his plan. Kill a couple of people and the government provides you with free room and board. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/26 "2012-07-23T04:44:17Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Should I ever come home from vacation to find unauthorized visitors, they won’t be there long. There won’t be any discussion of paperwork, just muzzle flashes and a call to the cops. > > My assumption is and always will be that anyone sneaking/breaking/entering my house is there to harm me or my family, and will be dealt with accordingly. Sure…find a family living peaceably in your home by accident, and murder them in cold blood. What could _possibly_ go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/27 "2012-07-23T04:49:54Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I’d hope the fact that in this case it appears that brilliant and nuanced plan would lead to your mudering two innocent people who were there because they were victims of fraud would lead you to reconsider that strategy They threatened me, prove me wrong, who is going to make the claims of fraud? Their family in another country? In any case no one has answered the question aside from saying cops tend to treat it as breaking and entering, which may not be the best charge, Imagine someone goes out for groceries and comes back to find squatters, squatters who very convincingly argue their right to remain with lies and fraudulent papers. What should someone do? How is this usually handled? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/28 "2012-07-23T05:43:30Z")
> [@grude](#): > > They threatened me, prove me wrong, who is going to make the claims of fraud? Better hold off until you see if it works for Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/29 "2012-07-23T05:52:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Better hold off until you see if it works for Zimmerman. And he would have got away with it too, if it wasn’t for those meddling kids!😛 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/30 "2012-07-23T15:09:05Z")
The sitcom solution would be to have them all live in the house together, with wacky misadventures arising from cultural misunderstandings. They’d call it something like “Mr. Potter and the Squatter,” starring Kevin James and George Lopez. Maybe these people could similarly solve all their problems by pitching a reality show. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/31 "2012-07-23T17:43:24Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The sitcom solution would be to have them all live in the house together, with wacky misadventures arising from cultural misunderstandings. They’d call it something like “Mr. Potter and the Squatter,” starring Kevin James and George Lopez. And we can get Michael Emerson to play the real estate agent. Then all we need is to cast an inexplicably hot blonde and an inexplicably hot latina as their wives. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/32 "2012-07-23T17:46:23Z")
> [@grude](#): > > They threatened me, prove me wrong, who is going to make the claims of fraud? Their family in another country? Usually people want to avoid shooting innocent people for reasons other then “well, I probably won’t get convicted”. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/33 "2012-07-23T17:52:56Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Usually people want to avoid shooting innocent people for reasons other then “well, I probably won’t get convicted”. Usually people also would like the idea that society and the police wouldn’t leave them hanging when burglers have a good story and some forged documents. Its amusing to think about, but probably not so amusing to live through. I don’t know about murdering someone in cold blood but if it happened to me and I was told to go file in court to evict them I’d make sure they knew it was in their best interest to leave on their own volition. I don’t have money to rent a hotel for even a week. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/34 "2012-07-24T04:41:17Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Usually people also would like the idea that society and the police wouldn’t leave them hanging when burglers have a good story and some forged documents. These are nowhere near equivalent. Killing these people would be wrong even if the law were not involved at all. It was bad enough that ducati thought occupying his house and killing the occupiers were equivalent actions, but you seem to be defending it based on the idea that you might not get caught. Both are sickening positions to hold. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/35 "2012-07-24T05:14:27Z")
I smell sit-com, or really depressing reality show. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/36 "2012-07-24T05:32:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > These are nowhere near equivalent. Killing these people would be wrong even if the law were not involved at all. It was bad enough that ducati thought occupying his house and killing the occupiers were equivalent actions, but you seem to be defending it based on the idea that you might not get caught. Both are sickening positions to hold. My first post was somewhat facecious as should have been obvious. I’m not defending the idea of murdering squatters in cold blood. However in a serious question which no one has addressed I asked what the average person should do if and when they find such a group of silver tongued occupiers with some nicely photoshopped documents in their home when they return and police offer no assistance. Should one meekly withdraw hoping the occupiers allow you to remove some effects from your own home and go file a civil court case? Oh and at least in the US state I am familiar with property is defendable with deadly force. [http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2009/09/deadly-force-and-home-defense-texas-man-kills-2-teens.html](http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2009/09/deadly-force-and-home-defense-texas-man-kills-2-teens.html) > [@](#): > > Texas illustrates one end of the spectrum – where deadly force is allowed in certain circumstances to protect or recover one’s own property or the property of another person. Many states forbid the use of deadly force to protect or recover property. > > In addition to the many situations in which it allows deadly force in self-defense, Texas law allows deadly force in defense of property if: > > •The person reasonably believes force is necessary to prevent another from taking the property or to recover it once taken (if in fresh pursuit); and > •when the person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent someone from committing arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime, or to prevent a person from fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime; and > •the person reasonably believes that the property can’t be recovered by any other means, and that using less than deadly force might expose the person to substantial risk of bodily harm or death. > This is likely why, in 2008, a Harris County grand jury refused to indict Joe Horn, who shot and killed two men who had robbed his neighbor’s house. The story stunned many, in large part due to the entire incident being recorded through Horn’s 911 call. After the 911 operator pleaded with Horn not to go outside with his shotgun, Horn took matters into his own hands. > > “I’m not gonna let them get away with this [expletive],” he repeats at one point, before saying “I’ll kill 'em.” After the 911 dispatcher pleaded with him that property was not worth killing someone over, he told him, “[w]ell, here it goes buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking and I’m going.” “Move. You’re dead,” is the next thing we hear Horn yell on the recording, immediately before the first of three shotgun blasts are heard. Horn shot the two men in the back, killing both. > > Many were outraged at the perceived indifference to human life in the grand jury’s decision not to have Joe Horn charged. However, under current Texas law, the grand jury’s decision was not out of the ordinary. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/37 "2012-07-24T06:23:37Z")
I wish the headline had been written slightly differently, I was wondering how Occupy Denver had gotten into these people’s house. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/38 "2012-07-24T06:37:12Z")
The homeowners should squat in the defrocked realtor’s home when he walks to the corner store. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/39 "2012-07-24T07:55:35Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Who is going to think they can buy a house for $5,000? The squatters were either ignorant or malicious. Look in the Cleveland, OH area. They were running about 200 foreclosures/week up there. Prices start at 2/3rd of market value and once a house has been left empty and the scrappers have gone through it, it can be worth less than the land the ‘building’ is sitting on. MANY idiots have invested in ‘cheap’ houses up there only to find out they now had to either pay to demolish it or pay tens of thousands to even get it up to code enough to rent. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637/40 "2012-07-24T08:05:24Z")
> [@grude](#): > > They threatened me, prove me wrong, who is going to make the claims of fraud? Their family in another country? > > In any case no one has answered the question aside from saying cops tend to treat it as breaking and entering, which may not be the best charge, > > Imagine someone goes out for groceries and comes back to find squatters, squatters who very convincingly argue their right to remain with lies and fraudulent papers. > > What should someone do? How is this usually handled? First, I highly doubt that this will happen while you’re out for groceries. It takes time for the scam to come about. The realtor had to show and “sell” the house. The house in the article was vacant for 8 months. Second, it is not the job of the local PD to deal with contract disputes. The squatters believe they have purchased the house (and have lived there for months) and you believe that you own the house. So, both of you believe that you are in the ‘right.’ The PD has NO ability to make the determination about who is actually in the right. So, until someone starts throwing fists or doing or threatening harm to the other, the only thing the PD can do is advise you take it to court. Third, if you are the one who starts waiving a weapon or throwing fists, then the local PD will probably oblige you with temporary housing, at least for the night. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredible-colorado-family-tries-to-regain-home-from-occupiers/628637.md?page=3)