# Incredibles questions (Warning: SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 16, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059 "2004-11-16T14:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/21 "2004-11-22T03:03:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Were there necessarily any supervillians? Other than Syndrome, the only evil costumed freak we see is Bomb Voyage, who’s just a guy with bad tastes in clothes who happens to carry around a lot of explosives. If the day shown in the beginning of the movie is any indicator, a superhero’s typical workload is pursesnatchers, building jumpers, kittens in trees, and competing supers. > > And I think that Mirage = robot is an interesting idea, _but we already saw one example in the movie of a robot which genuinely decided not to obey orders._ I can very easily see Syndrome deciding to build a girl robot, and he could probably do it, but there doesn’t seem to be any indication of such in the scenes with Syndrome and Mirage alone. It seems to me that the oh-so-mature and oh-so-subtle Syndrome would have blurted out “I made you!” or “You’re not even alive!” or the like, during that argument about respect for life. On the other hand, if there’s a sequel, Mirage being jealous of a genuine girl robot might make for an interesting subplot. What robot was that? The bot that he and the other villians fought on the Island was programed to fight them. It was a lie that ‘wasn’t obeying orders anymore’ told to get the heros there. Of course if Mirage didn’t know she was a robot and for some reason should not be told she was then Syndrom wouldn’t have said it and it explains why he wouldn’t care if Mr. I broke her. But then again with the ‘success’ of The Stepford Wives and Sky Captian, the idea of girl robots seems to not be a very good one for movies. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/22 "2004-11-22T04:13:05Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Batman > Iron Man > Hank Pym > Flash I and II > Atom II > Spider-Man > Beast > Professor X > Doctor Mid-Nite > Mister Fantastic > Mister Terrific > Brainiac 13 > Steel (John Henry Irons, I forget his number) > > All heroes, all Brainiacs, all (except for Batman, Spider-Man and maybe Brainiac) professional scientists or engineers. Yes, the mad technologist versus the “elitist” superpower is a common trope. However, the renaissance man hero is even more common. Even those not primarily known for their mental prowess (like Superman) are often portaryed as being plenty smart in tehir own right. Comics may be the least anti-intellectual medium. \ Don’t forget Blue Beetle II, Starman I, Forge, and the Engineer from The Authority! \ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/23 "2004-11-22T06:14:11Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > What robot was that? The bot that he and the other villians fought on the Island was programed to fight them. It was a lie that ‘wasn’t obeying orders anymore’ told to get the heros there. Same robot. Remember, during Syndrome’s big premiere, it shoots the remote control out of his hand? Clearly not what Syndrome had planned it to do. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/24 "2004-11-22T07:11:02Z")
I think the robot was programmed to wreak havoc indifferently until Syndrome put it under his control with the remote. It was purely by chance that it happened to shoot at him at just the right moment (or wrong moment, depending on your perspective), upsetting his plans. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/25 "2004-11-22T07:50:46Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > I think the robot was programmed to wreak havoc indifferently until Syndrome put it under his control with the remote. It was purely by chance that it happened to shoot at him at just the right moment (or wrong moment, depending on your perspective), upsetting his plans. No, it very clearly scanned him to discover how he was preventing it from acting, targetted the remote, and deliberatly shot it out of Syndrome’s hand. (Or off his wrist, more specifically.) I just got back from the movie, and there’s a POV shot from the robot where it shows it doing just this, complete with Terminator-style targetting prompts. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/26 "2004-11-22T11:35:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, it very clearly scanned him to discover how he was preventing it from acting, targetted the remote, and deliberatly shot it out of Syndrome’s hand. (Or off his wrist, more specifically.) I just got back from the movie, and there’s a POV shot from the robot where it shows it doing just this, complete with Terminator-style targetting prompts. definitely. basically he hadn’t put a failsafe in. he thought he was going to waltz in with the remote and save the day. He must have forgotten that the robot learnt from it’s opponent and adapted to fight better. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/27 "2004-11-22T14:21:32Z")
> [@One And Only Wanderers](#): > > definitely. basically he hadn’t put a failsafe in. he thought he was going to waltz in with the remote and save the day. He must have forgotten that the robot learnt from it’s opponent and adapted to fight better. My thought exactly. We already knew that the whole point of getting superheroes out to that island was (a) to bump them off, and (b) to test his series of mega-robots for maximum efficiency when he finally decided to make his public debut. We also know that there were superheroes Syndrome couldn’t find – Elastigirl, for one – and I figured that’s why he wanted that robot to be such a monster – in case any of them showed up to queer his deal. Perhaps this is why he left the “learning” feature intact in the final robot. Admittedly, considering he also intended to play with it for drama’s sake before “saving the city,” this was a remarkably stupid thing to do. Then again, pride goeth before a fall, and Syndrome’s pride approached psychosis in its sheer intensity. As to “supervillains,” well, Syndrome had no powers… and he sure qualified. When you think about it, Doctor Doom’s a pretty good example, as well. Hell, so’s the Mole Man – his only superpower is the trick of seeing in the dark, but both he and Doom have threatened humanity on any number of occasions that required superpowered opponents to stop them. If that ain’t supervillainy, what is? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/28 "2004-11-22T15:24:56Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Was I the only person that thought Mirage would turn out to be a robot? You mean, like in _Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow_? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/29 "2004-11-22T15:32:44Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > All heroes, all Brainiacs, all (except for Batman, Spider-Man and maybe Brainiac) professional scientists or engineers. Yes, the mad technologist versus the “elitist” superpower is a common trope. However, the renaissance man hero is even more common. Even those not primarily known for their mental prowess (like Superman) are often portaryed as being plenty smart in tehir own right. Comics may be the least anti-intellectual medium. Okay, okay, maybe I jumped the gun on that one. But. Remember what Syndrome’s ultimate aim was? “And then, when I’m old and have lived out my years, I’ll sell all the super technology I’ve developed for myself. Then _anybody_ can be super. And when everyone is super … no one will be!” His ultimate vile, despicable act of villainy was going to be _destroying super heroes’ elitism_ by allowing anyone to do what they did. And we in the audience were supposed to think of this as a terrible crime against humanity. No mention was made about what a boon to the future of humanity the Zero Point Energy ray would be. Or giving the average commuter flying boots. **Brains** themselves may not be evil in the comics (or in the movies derived from them), but **technology** sure as heck is! ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/30 "2004-11-22T16:06:34Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Remember what Syndrome’s ultimate aim was? > > “And then, when I’m old and have lived out my years, I’ll sell all the super technology I’ve developed for myself. Then _anybody_ can be super. And when everyone is super … no one will be!” > > His ultimate vile, despicable act of villainy was going to be _destroying super heroes’ elitism_ by allowing anyone to do what they did. And we in the audience were supposed to think of this as a terrible crime against humanity. No mention was made about what a boon to the future of humanity the Zero Point Energy ray would be. Or giving the average commuter flying boots. **Brains** themselves may not be evil in the comics (or in the movies derived from them), but **technology** sure as heck is! Perhaps I’m wrong, but I thought the line was, “And when everyone is special… no one will be.” This was a reflection on the earlier dinnertable conversation between Dash and his mother, about the nature of “special-ness.” I figured it was more in the nature of drama than a reflection on the glory of making everyone special (or not special). I don’t know about any of you, but I sure wouldn’t want to live in a world where any moron could go out and buy a paralyzer ray… or a disintegrator gun… and ghod help us all when thousands of commuters suddenly gain access to flying boots. There are no yellow lines in the sky, and the idea of the average idiot suddenly being able to fly, en masse, at any given speed, gives me nightmares. Car wrecks are bad enough. What happens when two unshielded human beings collide in midair at 80 mph? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/31 "2004-11-22T16:29:27Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > Car wrecks are bad enough. What happens when two unshielded human beings collide in midair at 80 mph? Evolution. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/32 "2004-11-22T16:55:30Z")
Bosda wins. Woot! On an unrelated note: Did anyone else notice in the opening sequence when Buddy is in Mr Incredibles car Mr Incredible says ‘Hey, you’re that kid from the fan club…Brodie, bu…bu…BUDDY! Yeah!’ and break up laughing? ‘Brodie’ was Jason Lee’s character in Mall Rats who was obsessed with Super Hero sex organs. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/33 "2004-11-22T17:25:42Z")
Oh yeah, definitely caught the “Brodie” thing. Made me chuckle, and I couldn’t even begin to explain it to my GF. But getting back to Mirage: I caught a lot of references, in style at least, to 60’s spy movies - Bond, Matt Helm, Flint, etc (yeah, some are paradies of the others - stay with me on this and don’t get hung up on that detail.) But in a lot of those, the girl who was working with the villian _always_ changes sides by the last reel, helping the hero win. It’s a trademarked plot twist, it seems. So her helping in the end was pretty obvious to me at least, and expected. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/34 "2004-11-22T19:22:59Z")
I didn’t expect Mirage to be a robot: until Mr. Incredible grabbed her, I expected her to be a **hologram**. I mean, c’mon. Mirage. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/35 "2004-11-22T23:26:04Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > His ultimate vile, despicable act of villainy was going to be _destroying super heroes’ elitism_ by allowing anyone to do what they did. And we in the audience were supposed to think of this as a terrible crime against humanity. No mention was made about what a boon to the future of humanity the Zero Point Energy ray would be. Or giving the average commuter flying boots. **Brains** themselves may not be evil in the comics (or in the movies derived from them), but **technology** sure as heck is! Technology he tested by killing innocent supers. Tech he was hoarding for himself, and only planned to pass along (at a tidy profit) after he was done being teh one and only super on the planet. Hell, Mr. Incredible can’t mass market his powers, but Syndrome could! He just didn’t want to. And most of it was weapons. Brad Bird hates weapons (see also the Iron Giant). It’s not like he had a cure for cancer. You have a point, though. Most comics ignore the tech advances super-technologists (or even just regular sciences studying supers) would have on the civillian world, often without good explanations why. Sure, the JLA, STAR labs, and shadowy government organizations have teleporters, but why isn’t there a commercial teleportation company? Why hasn’t someone cloned Barbara Gordon a new spine? The answer is, it isn’t super-heroes if everyone has access to the powers. The Mad technologist trope does rub the hero’s face in his own essential elitism, but at the end he still proves that he’s a hero throgh his actions. Not in that they are so powerful, but that they’re heroic. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/36 "2004-11-23T00:02:12Z")
Did anything in _The Incredibles_ say that Mirage was a super? The only indication I can think of is when she says to Mr. Incredible that according to the government, neither of them exist. But that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s a super, just that the’s off the grid. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/37 "2004-11-23T00:10:36Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > But that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s a super, just that the’s off the grid. Or that she’s lying. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/38 "2004-11-23T03:30:43Z")
I thought she was a shapeshifter. In my mind she changes color (hair color, skin color) and hair length a few times. But perhaps its my imagination? I just figured she didn’t do much more than change skin tone because it would have been confusing and needed more explaination than they were willing to give a minor character. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/39 "2004-11-23T12:31:34Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I thought she was a shapeshifter. In my mind she changes color (hair color, skin color) and hair length a few times. But perhaps its my imagination? I just figured she didn’t do much more than change skin tone because it would have been confusing and needed more explaination than they were willing to give a minor character. I don’t recall anything that required more than a bottle of hair dye. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059/40 "2004-11-23T14:47:06Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I didn’t expect Mirage to be a robot: until Mr. Incredible grabbed her, I expected her to be a **hologram**. > > I mean, c’mon. Mirage. > > Daniel I didn’t think of that but that is a good idea. However it seems that she was just an intelligent version of Ms. Teschmacher. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incredibles-questions-warning-spoilers/275059.md?page=3)