# Independence Day. Terrorist propaganda? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2015, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620 "2015-11-15T05:36:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/21 "2015-11-15T12:18:55Z")
As stated by others, I don’t think this movie could be classified as promoting a pro-terrorist viewpoint, as the scenes in question pretty involve a military response to a military operation. Also, not to be overly snarky, but I have to doubt that Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerich would ever have been capable of that subtle a social commentary. Regardless of that, as it stands, the aliens are the terrorists in this scenario. They pretty clearly have all the means necessary to identify and surgically suppress Earth’s puny military defenses, yet they choose instead to expend vast amounts of energy to wipe out urban population centers that are no real threat to them, for little more reason than shits and giggles. Side note: it would have been amusing if the writer and director had ever showed anything at all of the aliens’ societal structure. We don’t get even the most rudimentary information about them. Do they have males and females? Wives and children on board? Careers? Hobbies? Do they miss each other when separated and send wistful messages home? ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/22 "2015-11-15T12:35:43Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Do they have males and females? Wives and children on board? Careers? Hobbies? Do they miss each other when separated and send wistful messages home? Isn’t the alien inside the mothership bigger? I think I assumed they had a queen like social insects. Isn’t there also a line in there about them moving from world to world, exhausting all the resources and moving on each time? I’m sure the president gets info about them after one uses mind control on him. It’s been about 17-18 years since I saw it though. I don’t recall ever deeming it worthy of a rematch. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/23 "2015-11-15T12:44:37Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > And Fresh Prince was a Marine. And the president himself flies one of the fighter jets. Probably not a film to take too seriously (it shouldn’t really be necessary to say that). ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/24 "2015-11-15T12:52:13Z")
> [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > Isn’t the alien inside the mothership bigger? I think I assumed they had a queen like social insects. Isn’t there also a line in there about them moving from world to world, exhausting all the resources and moving on each time? I’m sure the president gets info about them after one uses mind control on him. > > It’s been about 17-18 years since I saw it though. I don’t recall ever deeming it worthy of a rematch. Going from memory, which I admit may be faulty, the only alien we actually see in the mothership is some sort of low-level functionary who operates the docking station where Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith end up while delivering the nuke. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/25 "2015-11-15T12:55:23Z")
We also see hundreds of soldiers preparing for a ground invasion although it’s a very short shot ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/26 "2015-11-15T14:19:48Z")
> [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > N Furthermore, martyrdom is surely exclusively a ‘muslim concept’. What? That is … [very ignorant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr). \*(the idea of the suicide bomber being a martyr it is to add is a recent concept invented by the takfiri fringe and borrower from the Sri Lankan Tamils who used it extenstively (Hindus), the Islam traditionally has held the idea of deliberate suicide missions in horror.) \* > [@](#): > > The notion of sacrificing oneself merely because you believe it is a noble thing to do, or that you will be remembered as a hero, should be completely incomprehensible to these (apparently non-muslim) characters. What is I think incomprehensible is the gross ignorance of the history that could lead someone to say that martyrdom in defense is an idea incomprehensible or new to non-muslims. It is weird. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/27 "2015-11-15T14:32:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nitpick: Randy Quaid’s character didn’t go into battle intending to do a kamikaze mission. His missile wouldn’t launch, which forced him to carry the missile directly to its target. He also had time to say goodbye to his children. I’m guessing some of the other pilots might have done the same. Sidenote - its surprising that the base had no SAM’s or other ground based missiles. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/28 "2015-11-15T14:58:41Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > He also had time to say goodbye to his children. > > I’m guessing some of the other pilots might have done the same. > > Sidenote - its surprising that the base had no SAM’s or other ground based missiles. The alien ships had a force field. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/29 "2015-11-15T15:19:22Z")
> [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > Two main characters (an airforce pilot and a scientific genius) upload a virus to their defense system and attempt to blow themselves up inside the mothership. They are saved at the last moment as the ship is destroyed. This is not what happens at all. Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum always intended to escape the mothership after delivering the bomb (think Enola Gay instead of 9/11). They only decide to “blow themselves up” when they realize the aliens have blocked their escape. And they save themselves at the end before the ship is destroyed. > [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > Another character, who is a loser, an outcast and an embarrassment to his family, joins the resistance. He is obviously perceived as incompetent but is reluctantly permitted to pilot a jet aircraft. He transforms himself into a global hero and wins back the respect of his family by piloting his plane into an enemy spacecraft. This is not what happens at all. Randy Quaid’s character is an accomplished pilot, who is only perceived as an embarrassment because he has PTSD from an alien abduction years before. When the aliens invade, his claims are proven correct and he straightens out his life throughout the rest of the movie. Also, he transforms himself into a global hero by taking part in a military operation (by definition, not terrorism) and sacrificing his life when one of his missiles malfunctions. > [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > I was pretty young when it came out, but I don’t remember hearing about people storming out of theatres, tearing up their tickets in disgust. In fact, didn’t it do quite well? At the time of its release, it was the 7th highest grossing film of all time. That’s not “quite well,” that’s a phenomenon. It’s why… > [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > Also, why does it never seem to be on TV any more? Independence Day is on TV all the time. It’s scheduled to air four times next week: [http://www.tvguide.com/movies/independence-day/tv-listings/131305/](http://www.tvguide.com/movies/independence-day/tv-listings/131305/) If you’re going to play gotcha games with popular movies and questions of terrorist propaganda, you might want to actually watch the movie you’re criticizing. 99 times out of 100, the people who try to pull this trick screw up the plot completely. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/30 "2015-11-15T15:20:38Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The alien ships had a force field. Not at that point they don’t. Also, Area 51 is a research facility in the film. They’re not going to have Surface-To-Air missiles just lying around. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/31 "2015-11-15T15:21:32Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Stories of soldiers who threw themself onto an enemy grenade to save their buddies in their unit are quite common. Heck, they use it as the-easiest-shorthand-imaginable in the CAPTAIN AMERICA movie, because how _else_ would they show that he’s the right man for the job? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/32 "2015-11-15T15:37:03Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > **Not at that point they don’t.** Also, Area 51 is a research facility in the film. They’re not going to have Surface-To-Air missiles just lying around. :smack: You’re right. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/33 "2015-11-15T15:41:35Z")
> [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > Okay. I imagined that. > > My turn. > > Imagine Dracula riding a verlociraptor… No wait, Dracula and He-man racing verlociraptors… Along the Death Star trench run! > > I like this game. Raspy computer voice: The only way to win the game is not to play. PS. The reason the movie is popular is mainly because the White House gets blown the fuck up. When push comes to shove thats something even liberals and conservatives both secretly wish for. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/34 "2015-11-15T15:49:39Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Raspy computer voice: > > The only way to win the game is not to play. > > PS. The reason the movie is popular is mainly because the White House gets blown the fuck up. When push comes to shove thats something even liberals and conservatives both secretly wish for. Incidentally the preview does show that, but the movie makes it clear that it was not the president who died, but many of his staff members in the Helicopter that is blown away in front of the white house in the actual movie. As I remember in the theater I saw it then, there were not many cheers. I always think that the helicopter was added precisely to counter the criticism that the makers of the movie got for that preview. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/35 "2015-11-15T16:20:20Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > The reason the movie is popular is mainly because the White House gets blown the fuck up. When push comes to shove thats something even liberals and conservatives both secretly wish for. I would hope that the politics is not so sick in the USA that this is not just an invention you write. it is very difficult to believe many americans secretely wish to blow up their presidential house. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/36 "2015-11-15T16:37:39Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > I would hope that the politics is not so sick in the USA that this is not just an invention you write. it is very difficult to believe many americans secretely wish to blow up their presidential house. I think it is (and was at the time) a “thing”. Most people (left and right) don’t actually WANT the White House blown the fuck up, with people/president inside and all that entails. I do think many people ARE (and were) frustrated with the seeming lack of ability of the President (whoever they were at the time), the House, the Senate, and the political machine in general NOT fixing the “problems” America faces. So, the blowing the fuck up of the White House is symbolic of getting rid of the status quo and finally getting down to business. Thinking about it now, I suspect one could make the arguement that the movie was one of the earliest “disaster porn” movies…though one with political undertones. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/37 "2015-11-15T16:50:01Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I think it is (and was at the time) a “thing”. Meh, it is a thing like when kids are shown in the movies cheering the school burning, like when the school is destroyed by a bombardment in WWII in the movie Hope and Glory (1987). (And I have seen it in real life when disasters that do not affect a school directly does close the school for the day) We all feel things like that but many usually do realize almost immediately that it is only a perverse fantasy that should remain that. In the move _Hope and Glory_ the reality did hit the protagonist when he realized that he was not going to see his friends for a very long time as they would have to move to a different school and far away. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/38 "2015-11-15T17:16:11Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I think it is (and was at the time) a “thing”. No. Independence Day was riding the wave of special effects blockbusters that started with T2, and continued with Jurassic Park. The film was one of the last to employ extensive practical effects alongside the digital trickery and blowing up the White House like they did was one of the most impressive VFX shots ever. People went for the spectacle, not for any political grudges. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/39 "2015-11-15T17:22:19Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > No. Independence Day was riding the wave of special effects blockbusters that started with T2, and continued with Jurassic Park. The film was one of the last to employ extensive practical effects alongside the digital trickery and blowing up the White House like they did was one of the most impressive VFX shots ever. People went for the spectacle, not for any political grudges. Yes, the impressiveness of the visuals was certainly a thing. Maybe even the major part of the thing. Hence my “disaster porn” comment. But one might argue that the blowing the fuck up of the White House , if it WAS actually something the average Joe would find offensive, wouldn’t HAVE BEEN in the movie if it were so. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620/40 "2015-11-15T17:34:43Z")
I think the reaction to blowing up the White House was so strong not because people particularly supported the concept, but simply because it was such a great “Shit just got _real_” moment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-day-terrorist-propaganda/737620.md?page=3)