# independence for Hawaii in the next decade? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 11, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662 "2007-12-11T21:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/1 "2007-12-11T21:58:58Z")
I remember seing a TV-program some years ago about the Hawaiian seperatist-movement Is this considered to be a strong movement? - and are an independent Hawaii a realistic scenario to happen in the next decade ? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/2 "2007-12-11T22:04:48Z")
I’m not so sure about the first part of your question, but the second half just doesn’t seem even remotely possible to me. I can’t imagine the US giving up a place that is such a strategic launching point for Asia, militarisitically. Further, I can’t really imagine the bulk of Hawaiians agreeing with such a movement either, since many base their livelihoods on mainland tourists. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/3 "2007-12-11T22:06:28Z")
Found this [cite](http://www.hawaii-nation.org/) on a Hawaiian independence movement. I’m doubtful that this is anything more than a fringe group…sort of like the Hispanic groups in the continental US who want an independent South West (some of my family are involved in this equally unlikely movement). From the cite: > [@](#): > > HAWAI’I’S INDEPENDENT FUTURE > Restoring Hawai’i’s independence is clearly legal, justified, and possible. It is obvious that the existing political and economic systems of the State of Hawaii, aside from being illegal, are not responsible to the just and timely advancement of peoples’ rights and livelihoods, nor the sustainability of our environment. In fact, the existing government by and large represents the interests of entities which destroy our future without regard for the eventual costs to our children. Discontent with the government is at an all time high. If we keep going in the same direction, we’ll certainly end up where we’re headed, which would be most unfortunate. This is not a specific critique of individuals in office; it is a call to awaken responsible and ethical participation in the inevitable transition of governing authority in Hawai`i. > > In Hawai`i and globally, our human `ohana (family) is an a crisis of living, unable to meet the basic needs of the people in a sustainable manner. We the people of Hawai`i are in a process of non-violent positive change designed to prevent further economic and environmental crisis in our region and in our world. Working together we can co-evolve a relatively corruption-free form of self-government that implements natural laws in a manner consistent with the realization of equality and liberty for all people in Hawai`i. > > Independence means more than just political independence. Currently we live in a highly dependent society, relying on outside sources, primarily the United States, to meet most of our basic needs. We import over three quarters of our food, and even more of our energy, despite the fact that we inhabit the most isolated land mass in the world. Therefore Hawai`i is subject to the control of outside forces, lacking self-reliance and suffering great vulnerability. Hawai`i must become more independent in many ways to ensure the future stability and security of our land and people. > > Once one shifts perspectives from U.S. domestic law to international law, the range of rights and of options for self-determination expand dynamically. The opportunity exists to evolve quickly in a positive direction with independent political status. Life won’t change drastically overnight, but can change steadily for the better. > > Economically, Hawai`i will capitalize on the advantages of our unique position in the center of the Pacific Rim, controlling our 200 mile Exclusive Economic Zone, becoming a center for international trade, ethical investment banking and related secure financial services, at the same time pursuing the diversification of our local economy with profitable and innovative community based projects, producing meaningful employment and furthering local and national self-sufficiency. > > If there is any place in the world capable of evolving politically, economically, socially, and culturally in a peaceful transition toward a truly equitable and sustainable future, it is Hawai`i. In the process, we will become an example and evolving model of self-determination and goodwill for the common benefit of all our Earth’s peoples. > > As we remember and integrate the wisdom of our ancestors, we begin to reflect on the wise and just way to honor the past, perfect the present, and prepare for a peaceful future. With Aloha, we can change the world. > > Aloha Ke Akua. This seems more a GD question, but judge for yourself. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/4 "2007-12-11T22:07:09Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] I’m not so sure about the first part of your question, but the second half just doesn’t seem even remotely possible to me. I can’t imagine the US giving up a place that is such a strategic launching point for Asia, militarisitically. Further, I can’t really imagine the bulk of Hawaiians agreeing with such a movement either, since many base their livelihoods on mainland tourists. [/QUOTE] But would it make such a difference to mainland tourists? Even if it does it become its own country it won’t mean we can’t go there. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/5 "2007-12-11T22:09:23Z")
Consider that there is no precedent at all for the peaceful or successful secession of a US state, nor any clear process in the Constitution to follow. Given that, independence for Puerto Rico seems about a billion times more likely than for Hawaii. (And unlike Hawaii, the independence movement in PR is actually politically significant.) ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/6 "2007-12-11T22:09:51Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] But would it make such a difference to mainland tourists? Even if it does it become its own country it won’t mean we can’t go there. [/QUOTE] No, but it sure helps attract people and money from the rest of the US. Does Hawaii add more in taxes than it recieves in federal funding? That would be a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/7 "2007-12-11T22:11:22Z")
In the United States, a State cannot unilaterally declare itself separate from the United States. Since no State has ever left the United States permanently (and the only States to have ever left did so without ever being recognized as separated by the government and these States were ravaged by the U.S. military and forcibly made to accept their place in the United States) I’m not sure there is any decisive idea on what form such a separation would take (if I’m wrong, I’d be genuinely interested in learning about this.) At the very least, removal of any State from the union would probably require the consent of the Federal government–I think the American Civil War has more or less settled that particular issue. But perhaps 3/4ths of the States could modify the constitution in such a way as to allow individual States to leave at will. Such a constitutional amendment would almost definitely have to be introduced via constitutional convention In any case, while I’m unsure of the legal nuances of Hawaii becoming a sovereign state, I can most assure you that the practical reality is that Hawaii is not remotely close to becoming a sovereign state. Nor will it become one within in the foreseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/8 "2007-12-11T22:15:04Z")
I find it to be strange that Hawaii are an american state since it’s so long away from the mainland. Is Hawaii even a a part of the American continent? ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/9 "2007-12-11T22:17:13Z")
It was a big deal shortly before the millennium, as that was the hundred-year anniversary of the overthrow. There was a lot of talk of sovereignty, and many ethnic Hawaiian groups seemed to come out of the woodwork to position themselves as representatives of the Hawaiian community/potential leaders of the sovereign nation. Unfortunately, although many non-ethnic Hawaiian supported some form of independence to Native Hawaiians, nothing ever materialized. (I personally did not support any independent Hawaiian nation, mostly because I didn’t think any group demonstrated competent leadership.) I didn’t pay much attention to any legislative proposals that would have granted Hawaiians independence, although I do know there were efforts made in that direction. All talk of sovereignty seems to have disappeared in the last few years. As far as I can tell, the only lasting effect of the Hawaiian independence movement is an increased interest in the Hawaiian language and culture. You can now get a degree in the language at UH, and I think there is a Hawaiian-only school somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/10 "2007-12-11T22:22:04Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] Is Hawaii even a a part of the American continent? [/QUOTE] I’m not sure why being part of the American continent matters one way or the other but…is this a trick question? If not, the short answer is…no. It’s an island. -XT ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/11 "2007-12-11T22:34:14Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] I’m not sure why being part of the American continent matters one way or the other but…is this a trick question? If not, the short answer is…no. It’s an island. [/QUOTE] It’s actually lots of islands. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/12 "2007-12-11T22:36:13Z")
Yes…I mis-typed that. It is lots of islands that are volcanic in nature and not connected to the American continent. -XT ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/13 "2007-12-11T22:38:41Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] But would it make such a difference to mainland tourists? Even if it does it become its own country it won’t mean we can’t go there. [/QUOTE] It might. Needing a passport sometimes hampers people’s travel plans. Not always, but I wonder if it would have an effect. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/14 "2007-12-11T22:41:11Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] I’m not sure why being part of the American continent matters one way or the other but…is this a trick question? If not, the short answer is…no. It’s an island. -XT [/QUOTE] Hawaii is composed of hundreds of islands. And it’s not easy for a U.S. state to secede (it’s been tried, remember?) . . . though it might as well be part of Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/15 "2007-12-11T22:47:35Z")
Secession could happen easily enough if both sides wanted it. However, it’s my impression that neither a majority of Hawaiians nor a majority of mainlanders want it to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/16 "2007-12-11T22:49:07Z")
I found this on wikipedia: > [@](#): > > On 15 November 1993, President of the United States Bill Clinton signed an Apology Resolution, admitting that the U.S. was at fault in supplying military assistance to the “conspirators” who overthrew the government of Queen Liliʻuokalani. > Hawaiian governors apologize: > > “The recovery of Hawaiian self-determination is not only an issue for Hawaiʻi, but for America. Let all of us, Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian, work toward a common goal. Let us resolve to advance a plan for Hawaiian sovereignty.” —Governor Benjamin J. Cayetano, 1998 > “This is a historical issue, based on a relationship between an independent government and the United States of America, and what has happened since and the steps that we need to take to make things right.” —Governor Linda Lingle, 2003 > **[Hawaiian sovereignty movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Sovereignty_Movement#Responses_to_the_sovereignty_movement)** > > The Hawaiian sovereignty movement (Hawaiian: ke ea Hawaiʻi) is a grassroots political and cultural campaign to reestablish an autonomous or independent nation or kingdom of Hawaii out of a desire for sovereignty, self-determination, and self-governance. > Some groups also advocate some form of redress from the United States for its 1893 overthrow of Queen Liliʻuokalani, and for what is described as a prolonged military occupation beginning with the 1898 annexation. The movement generally views... ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/17 "2007-12-11T22:50:21Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] Secession could happen easily enough if both sides wanted it. However, it’s my impression that neither a majority of Hawaiians nor a majority of mainlanders want it to happen. [/QUOTE] “Easily?” How would it happen, exactly? What’s the easy process for secession, or are you just making this up? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/18 "2007-12-11T23:01:06Z")
In the middle of the Pacific, so, no, not even part of the same continental shelf. Not in the Americas at all, actually. Sort of like how French Guiana is part of France despite being across the Atlantic. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/19 "2007-12-11T23:06:46Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] I find it to be strange that Hawaii are an american state since it’s so long away from the mainland… [/QUOTE] Hawaii is singular. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662/20 "2007-12-11T23:24:05Z")
I think that constitutionally **Giles** is closer to on target than the “it takes a constitutional amendment” view. In 1946 the Philippines, an American territory, were granted independence, after a period as a Commonwealth (the Puerto Rico/Northern Marianas usage of the word). It took a resolution from the territorial government and one from the U.S. Congress. It would be my opinion that what the Civil War settled (and that absurd court case over State bonds during the Confederacy ratified) is that U.S. states have irrevocably given up the right to secede unilaterally. If there were common agreement between a state and Washington that it deserved to go its own way, then the Philippine precedent (and the regular offer of independence to Puerto Rico at plebiscite time) would suggest that Congress and the state government, in concert, can do it. As for Hawai’ian independence, though, it’s my understanding that it is a fairly small minority which is seeking it – nowhere near as strong, even, than the Scottish independence people. Hawai’i the state is composed of eight main islands, six of them being the state proper and the other two a military reservation and a privately owned estate, along with a chain of islets and reefs geographically within Hawai’i state (and Honolulu county) but administered by either the Interior or Navy Department (Fed. Gov’t.). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independence-for-hawaii-in-the-next-decade/429662.md?page=2)