# Independents: What do you think of Palin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951 "2008-09-04T06:47:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/61 "2008-09-04T20:18:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is exactly the kind of elitist crap that makes liberals look bad. > [@](#): > > The Democrats claim to be the party of the working class, but at every chance they belittle them. You don’t really like the soccer moms in the midwest. You condescend to them. You want to use them to rise to political power so you can change the country in ways that YOU want, but you really don’t like the people you claim to champion. > > That argument is going to sting the Democrats in this election, because it’s got a lot of truth in it. > [@](#): > > I rest my case. You’ve got nothing but hostility and derision for the very people Democrats claim to represent. Wow, you sure told off that liberal Democrat. > [@anu-la1979](#): > > I won’t change my affiliation to Republican from Independent (and neither will the rest of my family) till the party divorces itself from these trogolodytes. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/62 "2008-09-04T20:46:11Z")
I’m an unaffiliated voter. _Is she fit to be VP?_ Given that the VP has to be able to step in at a split second should something happen to the President, no. \*If McCain dies, is she fit to be President? \* Based on her current background and experience, hell no. _Has McCain’s choice of her affected your choice of whom to vote this year?_ No. I was planning to vote for Obama, and I still am. There are plenty of Republican women with significant expertise and experience that McCain could have picked. It wouldn’t have changed my vote, but I would have respected him for it. Instead, he’s made it clear that he’s choosing to cave in to the religious right. McCain is trying to win an election, not put together a good governing team. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/63 "2008-09-04T20:48:57Z")
[QUOTE=burundi] McCain is trying to win an election, not put together a good governing team. [/QUOTE] So, Obama is trying to lose? Well, of course, only Evil Republicans™ try and actually WIN election. Except that evil Clinton dude of course… -XT ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/64 "2008-09-04T21:09:58Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > So, Obama is trying to lose? Well, of course, only Evil Republicans™ try and actually WIN election. Except that evil Clinton dude of course… What I mean is that by choosing Palin, it makes McCain seem solely focused on winning the election. If he wanted a social conservative, there are other social conservatives out there with more expertise. If he wanted a woman, there are other Republican women out there with more expertise. It’s hard for me to fathom what Palin would bring to the White House that would make someone pick her above those others. I don’t like Dick Cheney (to put it mildly). But when Bush picked him, he wasn’t just picking someone who would appeal to voters, he was picking someone who brought signficant experience, expertise and connections to the VP job. What does Palin bring? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/65 "2008-09-04T21:13:31Z")
I would have to say that Obama’s choice of Biden pretty much falls into the same category. He selected Biden to fill a supposed hole in his experience…and it doesn’t hurt that Biden is not only an old white dude but also the consummate Washington insider to boot. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/66 "2008-09-04T21:28:12Z")
> [@anu-la1979](#): > > Since I’m the one who called her a dumbass, I’ll respond. > > b) University of Idaho? Give me a break. She’s intelligent in the way Paris Hilton and celebrities are referred to as intelligent. Everytime I think about leaning back left, I run into someone spouting stuff like this or read it. I cannot hold someone, or a party, in high esteem that feels they are so much smarter than others for the absolute stupidist reasons…like I went to Harvard and she went to U of Idaho so OF COURSE I am smarter. I know, not all Democrats are like this and many Republicans are…but…damn!..I sure seem to run into many Democrats that feel this way. {The equivalent Repub version is that if you are poor it is your own fault} Democrats, seriously, this is your biggest problem image problem with much of the U.S. You really need to knock that crap off because the people you are lording over are not that dumb and they know this is BS when they see it. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/67 "2008-09-04T21:29:14Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Everytime I think about leaning back left, I run into someone spouting stuff like this or read it. > > I cannot hold someone, or a party, in high esteem that feels they are so much smarter than others for the absolute stupidist reasons…like I went to Harvard and she went to U of Idaho so OF COURSE I am smarter. I know, Not all Democrats are like this and many Repbilicans are…but…damn!..I sure seem to run into many Democrats that feel this way. > > Democrats, seriously, this is your biggest problem image problem with much of the U.S. You really need to knock that crap off because the people you are lording over are not that dumb and they know this is BS when they see it. psst - its already been pointed out, but anu self identifies as a Republican… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/68 "2008-09-04T21:40:17Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Does anyone else see the parallel with President Laura Roslin? She even looks like her a little bit. [/QUOTE] That isn’t a very flattering comparison. Roslyn is charismatic and fundamentally tried to do the right thing, but she’s an arrogant tyrant who breaks the law when it suits her purpose, is dishonest and conniving when it suits her purpose, and places her own religious delusions above rational thought. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/69 "2008-09-04T21:51:33Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > - Is she fit to be VP? > - If McCain dies, is she fit to be President? These two are really the same question. I think my answer actually is technically yes, as “fit” as anybody is, but I personally don’t want her doing the job. > [@Polerius](#): > > - Has McCain’s choice of her affected your choice of whom to vote this year? Hell yes. An excellent VP choice could’ve won McCain my vote this year. I will absolutely not be voting for him at this point, though, barring anything short of Palin’s removal from the ticket. She scares me in ways very few politicians (Brownback and W. Bush come to mind) can. I don’t give a shit about who her daughter is fuckin’ or if she took a plane ride she might not should’ve, but her views on religion and abortion are extreme, IMO, and I don’t want an extremist in office. And her obsession with “loyalty” screams Bush/Nixon/Stalin/bad bad bad. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/70 "2008-09-04T21:57:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > [Quote=John Mace] > Does anyone else see the parallel with President Laura Roslin? She even looks like her a little bit. That isn’t a very flattering comparison. Roslyn is charismatic and fundamentally tried to do the right thing, but she’s an arrogant tyrant who breaks the law when it suits her purpose, is dishonest and conniving when it suits her purpose, and places her own religious delusions above rational thought. [/quote] Flattering it ain’t, but that’s a pretty dead-on description of Sarah Barracuda. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/71 "2008-09-04T22:01:10Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > her obsession with “loyalty” What are you referring to here? -Kris ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/72 "2008-09-04T22:13:20Z")
Being an unabashed liberal, formerly registered as Independent but now as Democrat, I can’t offer an opinion – though I’m sure you can guess what it would be. I did come across [an answer of sorts](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/4/11525/73205/547/586256) to the OP’s questions, from this person: > [@](#): > > Eight months ago, I was a registered Republican, standing in a cold room in Iowa supporting Ron Paul in the Iowa caucuses. For most of my life, I’ve been a believer in small government and individual liberties, the ideals that, according to what I learned in high school civics, the Republican Party stood for. I voted Libertarian in 2004, simply because I felt that the Libertarian candidate seemed to best voice those ideals at the time. The rest of the text should be enlightening. ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/73 "2008-09-04T22:18:24Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > I was seriously considering voting for McCain this year. I liked a lot of what he had to say in 2000. If he had gone with Hutchison, he would’ve had me. Palin’s stances on abortion and evolution make it impossible for me to vote the McCain ticket. I would have voted for McCain in 2000, and I stayed home on election day because of Bush’s smear campaign against him - I probably would have voted Bush if not for that, because I thought he was one of the better Republican candidates in a while at the time. He’s totally caved in to the neocons since then, though, and despite my respect for his past accomplishments, I can’t support the man he is today. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/74 "2008-09-04T22:33:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > She has two years+ as Governor, Obama has 3 years+ as Senator, if she’s not fit to be Veep, then Obama’s not fit to be Prez. I disagree. I’ll list the political experiences of the two of them. Sarah Palin: City Council Member, Wasilla, Alaska In office 1992 – 1996 Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska In office 1996 – 2002 Chairperson, Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission In office 2003 – 2004 11th Governor of Alaska Incumbent Assumed office December 4, 2006 Barack Obama: Member of the Illinois Senate from the 13th district In office January 8, 1997 – November 4, 2004 Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs Incumbent Assumed office January 4, 2007 Junior Senator from Illinois Incumbent Assumed office January 4, 2005 Overall I find Barack Obama’s experience to be longer and more encompassing. Sarah Palin has been a governor for twenty months (should it count for double because it’s “executive experience?”), but her political career before that is certainly far from impressive. Wasilla is a small town. I also found Obama’s education to be more impressive than Palin’s. Again, not to sell her short or to minimize the credentials of the University of Idaho. I just find a harvard law degree and B.A. from Columbia (major political science with specialty in international relations) to be more impressive than a Bachelor of science degree in communication/journalism with a minor in political science. And for future reference, do not presume to tell me my opinion. It’s not appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/75 "2008-09-04T22:40:45Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I disagree. I’ll list the political experiences of the two of them. That dog won’t hunt. Just look at it this way: in a lot of respects, I don’t think experience means all that much, and in fact maybe Washington _needs_ someone without too much experience. Orson Welles made _Citizen Kane_ when he was 24. Uwe Boll is 43. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/76 "2008-09-04T22:51:16Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > That dog won’t hunt. Just look at it this way: in a lot of respects, I don’t think experience means all that much, and in fact maybe Washington _needs_ someone without too much experience. Orson Welles made _Citizen Kane_ when he was 24. Uwe Boll is 43. If you don’t believe that experience matters as much, that’s fine. Mileage may and does vary. Comparing the presidency of the United States to movie directing? 😕 There’s a dog that won’t hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/77 "2008-09-04T22:51:58Z")
The Economist (a pro-free-trade magazine) has a scathing editorial on her, [The woman from nowhere](http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12066224), which I agree with. By choosing her, McCain has given up his last shreds of independence from the social conservatives of the Republican party. I’m a Republican from the fiscal responsibility, limited government wing which has been completely marginalized lately. I was a big supporter of McCain in 2000, but that person no longer exists. It’s either Obama or Barr for me in the fall, depending on the polls and my mood. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/78 "2008-09-04T22:52:37Z")
Registered Independent for 24 years. 1.No 2.No 3. Before McCain made this pick, I was prepared t accept a McCain victory as not being the end of the world. Now I think the prospect is terrifying, not because of McCain, but because of the prospect that this psycopath, Palin might be put in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/79 "2008-09-04T22:56:27Z")
Registered independent. I am liberal on personal issues (pro choice, pro gay rights, pro keeping religion out of schools, anti-censorship) I am conservative on economic issues (against socialized medicine, against high taxes, against outrageous spending, pro fiscal responsibility). Palin’s stands on personal issues horrify me (anti-choice in cases of rape, creationism in schools, discussed book banning). I don’t know enough about her economic policies to judge them. 1. In terms of experience, I don’t have a problem with her being VP. 2. I don’t think she is fit to be president. I shudder to think of her dealing with critical foreign policy. 3. It has not affected my choice. Even though I disagree with Obama on many of his policies, after the last 8 years it would have taken a miracle for me not to vote democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/80 "2008-09-04T23:04:19Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Comparing the presidency of the United States to movie directing? 😕 There’s a dog that won’t hunt. Why? They’re both executive positions that require knowledge, creativity, and organizational and leadership skills. The Palin is less experienced than Obama bit isn’t going to bring the house down because A) neither one of them are particularly experienced (either would be a top 5 youngest president), B) it’s very debatable whose experience in what counts for more, and C) as someone else pointed out, Palin has more executive experience than McCain, Obama, and Biden combined. I can’t stand Palin but I think it’s immature to pick the experience nit when there are so many better things to say against her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951.md?page=5)