# Independents: What do you think of Palin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951 "2008-09-04T06:47:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/81 "2008-09-04T23:26:06Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] I can’t stand Palin but I think it’s immature to pick the experience nit when there are so many better things to say against her. [/QUOTE] I agree. I can understand why a lot of 'dopers would find her positions on the psudo-religious issues distasteful. I find them distasteful. Palin is a social (and religious) conservative and seems to be an economic libertarian of some kind. Not exactly a good match for folks on this board. But the experience thing is a meme. Obama doesn’t have any great experience, nor are most people voting for him because of his vast experience. They are voting for him because they LIKE him and like what he has to say. As I said, he ooozzzzeeeessss personality. Well, so does Palin, at least to the kinds of people who go along with her brand of politics. Whether that is the majority of Americans or not remains to be seen…and whether or not she can pull this off remains to be seen. IMHO most 'dopers are attacking her on all the wrong things because that’s what they are TOLD by the other sides bullet points (well, except the far out one’s who insist on seemingly attacking her because she is female, insist on calling her things like ‘bitch’, belittling her because she is female, etc etc…those folks are out past the bleeding edge of stupid). Everything I’ve hear in these various threads is exactly the same talking points I’ve been hearing on places like CNN this week. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it’s sort of ironic considering the way conservatives have been busted on for parroting the Fox talking points for the last few years. Myself, the jury is still out. I’ll make a better determination of her political skills when I see her in the debates. I will say that, while I don’t agree with most of her platform, her speech at the RNC was pretty good and she, like Obama, oozed personality. For those not blinded by the hate it was pretty obvious that she should not be dismissed as lightly as most of the Obama faithful in these them parts are dismissing her. Her meme is going to resonate with those ‘fundy racist’ types most of the rest of us call ‘citizens’…so it’s probably a good thing that Obama is smarter than his faithful followers around here and seems to not only be refraining from the stupid/idiotic attacks but does not seem to be taking her or McCain lightly. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/82 "2008-09-04T23:34:34Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > The Palin is less experienced than Obama bit isn’t going to bring the house down because A) neither one of them are particularly experienced (either would be a top 5 youngest president), B) it’s very debatable whose experience in what counts for more, and C) as someone else pointed out, Palin has more executive experience than McCain, Obama, and Biden combined. > > I can’t stand Palin but I think it’s immature to pick the experience nit when there are so many better things to say against her. I’m not trying to pick a nit or sell anyone on anything. I’m explaining my opinion and the reasons why I personally don’t think she’s qualified for the position. > [@xtisme](#): > > But the experience thing is a meme. Obama doesn’t have any great experience, nor are most people voting for him because of his vast experience. They are voting for him because they LIKE him and like what he has to say. As I said, he ooozzzzeeeessss personality. Well, so does Palin, at least to the kinds of people who go along with her brand of politics. Whether that is the majority of Americans or not remains to be seen…and whether or not she can pull this off remains to be seen. I’ve said it before in another thread. I don’t think Obama is particularly experienced either and I’d have preferred it if he had waited until the next election cycle (4-8 years) to run. I’m voting for him because his approach to diplomacy and his political views run closer to mine than McCain’s As for Palin’s positions, I may disagree with them but I can’t say that they make her unqualified/unfit to be the vice president any more than my disagreements with President Bush’s policies make him unqualified to be president. The question in this thread regarded fitness. That’s what I answered Hope this clears things up. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/83 "2008-09-04T23:41:31Z")
> [@maniondl](#): > > And I agree, lots of people believe some really whacky stuff, but hey, that’s their prerogative. What cranks me up is when people want to teach their particular brand of whackiness in schools. And I’ve noticed that it’s generally not the I-Ching and Feng Shui loonies who want access to the science curricula. If I’m wrong, we can join forces against the interior decorators trying to get Feng Shui into classrooms. Hehe, speaking of stupid beliefs, the idea that Feng Shui an **art** , should be judged by the criteria of belief that a science should, is a pretty dumb one. 😉 What’s next, debunking surrealism? Are we going to start criticizing cubists for being irrational nutbags? Oh…wait… 😉 My current apartment has much better Feng Shui than my last one. Everyone that’s been here has said so. 😉 Though they say it in American, “This apartment has a much better layout than the last one.”, My friends are a bunch of fucking irrational morons, thinking that the shape of the apartment has an impact on the quality of life within it. 😉 /hijack /nitpick ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/84 "2008-09-04T23:42:46Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > I completely agree. I _want_ our leaders to be Great People. I want them to have overcome humble origins, gone to Great Schools, done Great Things. The fact that this race to the middle resonates with so many people is terrifying for me, because as much as I try, I simply cannot understand it nor relate to it. Go vote for Obama you Liberal Elitist. 😉 As an aside, I went to an Ivy league too, and I also majored in beer and weed, only I didn’t pay a cent in tuition and didn’t have to attend classes. That’s how elite I am. 😉 Much smarter than the idiots who paid thousands per semester to do what I did for free. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/85 "2008-09-04T23:52:29Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > They are voting for him because they LIKE him and like what he has to say. As I said, he ooozzzzeeeessss personality. [Repeating](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html) [This](http://obama.senate.gov/press/070111-lugar-obama_non/) [Meme](http://www.aim.org/guest-column/coburn-obama-effort-to-curb-wasteful-federal-spending/) [Doesn’t](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/21/opinion/21mon2.html) [Make](http://www.huliq.com/41519/barack-obama-to-change-death-penalty-law) [It](http://www.barackobama.com/2006/06/28/call_to_renewal_keynote_address.php) [True](http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf) Every single person I know or have spoken to is completely able to articulate specific reasons they are voting for Senator Obama for President. Obama supporters are some of the most educated and informed constituents in the country. This constant attempt to paint him as an empty suit, or his supporters as mindless worshipers is really, really offensive. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/86 "2008-09-05T00:15:55Z")
I am not voting for Obama because of likability. I started off for Edwards. Obama went through endless debates are articulated his positions very well. He is bright and can actually think on his feet. He fought off several challengers and had to win people over. I still like my presidents to be smart ,well read and informed. Crashing an airplane and being captive are not important to the position of president. Palin as president. It is a joke. She appears out of nowhere . McCain talked it over with her once. She is the choice of the righties . She is not at all ready to step in to the office. Can you picture that? It gives me chills. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/87 "2008-09-05T00:21:37Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I am not voting for Obama because of likability. I started off for Edwards. Obama went through endless debates are articulated his positions very well. He is bright and can actually think on his feet. He fought off several challengers and had to win people over. I still like my presidents to be smart ,well read and informed. Crashing an airplane and being captive are not important to the position of president. > Palin as president. It is a joke. She appears out of nowhere . McCain talked it over with her once. She is the choice of the righties . She is not at all ready to step in to the office. Can you picture that? It gives me chills. I recently got off the phone with an older woman that said nothing about McCain but said she liked Palin and that she was a “barracuda” and a “pit bull with lipstick”. 1. I think the furry crowd might dig that. 2. Really? A pit bull with lipstick? I understand what you’re trying to say, but it misses, I think. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/88 "2008-09-05T00:24:13Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Every single person I know or have spoken to is completely able to articulate specific reasons they are voting for Senator Obama for President. Obama supporters are some of the most educated and informed constituents in the country. This constant attempt to paint him as an empty suit, or his supporters as mindless worshipers is really, really offensive. [/QUOTE] This is like the (probably apocryphal) tale of the woman who said “But how did Nixon get elected??? All my friends voted against him!” IOW, guess what Shayna? There are quite a few folks voting for McCain who can ALSO ‘articulate specific reasons they are voting’. It’s only folks on the OTHER side who feel that the reasons are invalid somehow because they don’t conform to their specific world view…sort of like when the shoe is on the other foot and it’s your their ox that’s gored, ehe? And just for the record, I didn’t attempt to paint Obama as ‘an empty suit’…that’s YOUR strawman (and the folks who use it’s of course), not mine. I said he lacked real world experience…and he does. It take a partisan to say that Obama has vast experience, political or executive…just like Palin doesn’t. But it’s all about who’s ox is gored…and obviously yours is gored by the reality behind the fact that Obama DOES lack experience. It’s a meme either way you slice it. What possible difference people think that Washington experience matters is beyond me. It’s fucking slimy dog politician experience that seemingly you (and the folks talking the same meme on the other side of the isle) seemingly want. Good luck with that…it’s served us So well in the past. If you are really voting for Obama because of his vast experience and not because of his message then you are deluded and, IMHO, in the minority of people who ARE voting for him because of what he’s about…not how long he’s been in. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/89 "2008-09-05T00:34:18Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > This is like the (probably apocryphal) tale of the woman who said “But how did Nixon get elected??? All my friends voted against him!” > > IOW, guess what Shayna? There are quite a few folks voting for McCain who can ALSO ‘articulate specific reasons they are voting’. It’s only folks on the OTHER side who feel that the reasons are invalid somehow because they don’t conform to their specific world view…sort of like when the shoe is on the other foot and it’s your their ox that’s gored, ehe? Cite for where I ever said or implied that people don’t have valid reasons to vote for McCain. Nice dodging the issue, though, and not taking responsibility for your own unsupported allegation. > [@xtisme](#): > > And just for the record, I didn’t attempt to paint Obama as ‘an empty suit’…that’s YOUR strawman (and the folks who use it’s of course), not mine. I said he lacked real world experience…and he does. It take a partisan to say that Obama has vast experience, political or executive…just like Palin doesn’t. But it’s all about who’s ox is gored…and obviously yours is gored by the reality behind the fact that Obama DOES lack experience. I’ve never claimed “vast” experience on Barack’s part, so that’s another straw man. Your opinion that he lacks _any_ experience is contradicted by the facts. > [@xtisme](#): > > If you are really voting for Obama because of his vast experience and not because of his message then you are deluded and, IMHO, in the minority of people who ARE voting for him because of what he’s about…not how long he’s been in. Take your personal insults to the pit. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/90 "2008-09-05T00:47:38Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Cite for where I ever said or implied that people don’t have valid reasons to vote for McCain. [/QUOTE] It’s pretty much implied by your post. You want me to ‘cite’ my interpretation of your post? Should I get a psychic to do that or will goat entrails do? [QUOTE=Shayna] Nice dodging the issue, though, and not taking responsibility for your own unsupported allegation. [/QUOTE] What dodge? You took exception to this quote by me “They are voting for him because they LIKE him and like what he has to say. As I said, he ooozzzzeeeessss personality.” Are you saying that people aren’t voting for Obama because they both like him and like his message??? WTF are you on about? [QUOTE=Shayna] I’ve never claimed “vast” experience on Barack’s part, so that’s another straw man. Your opinion that he lacks any experience is contradicted by the facts [/QUOTE] Learn. Too. Read. Here is what I said: > [@](#): > > But the experience thing is a meme. Obama doesn’t have any great experience, nor are most people voting for him because of his vast experience. They are voting for him because they LIKE him and like what he has to say. As I said, he ooozzzzeeeessss personality. Well, so does Palin, at least to the kinds of people who go along with her brand of politics. Whether that is the majority of Americans or not remains to be seen…and whether or not she can pull this off remains to be seen. ‘Obama doesn’t have any great experience’ doesn’t not equal ‘Your opinion that he lacks any experience’, at least by most common usages of the language. He DOESN’T have any great experience. He’s a junior Senator, and that’s the highest POLITICAL job he’s held. Do you dispute that? Not only is he a junior Senator but he’s spent a good deal of his time AS Senator running for President…not exactly an effort that gives you a lot of free time to do your primary job, ehe? Again, read for comprehension here…Obama isn’t going to be elected President because of his vast experience. He’s going to be elected because people like him and his message, his plans, his program and his charisma and personality. If you dispute that then you do…no skin off my nose. Some folks think the earth is flat after all… > [@](#): > > Take your personal insults to the pit. You aren’t worth the effort, I have no animosity toward you, and if you REALLY feel you were insulted you wouldn’t try such a stupid cheap shot but instead report me to a mod. Your false offense and huffing really don’t phase me. -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/91 "2008-09-05T00:52:48Z")
BTW, Obama was great on Fox tonight. I think he definitely hit a home run IMHO…FWIW, partisan I am and all. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/92 "2008-09-05T00:54:01Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Go vote for Obama you Liberal Elitist. 😉 > > As an aside, I went to an Ivy league too, and I also majored in beer and weed, only I didn’t pay a cent in tuition and didn’t have to attend classes. That’s how elite I am. 😉 Much smarter than the idiots who paid thousands per semester to do what I did for free. What is truly remarkable about your degree is that you never had to leave a dorm to do it. I paid the money, but I didn’t even get the weed and beer. Go fig. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/93 "2008-09-05T00:58:29Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > If you dispute that then you do…no skin off my nose. Hard to tell from your vitriolic responses to me here. > [@xtisme](#): > > You aren’t worth the effort, I have no animosity toward you, and if you REALLY feel you were insulted you wouldn’t try such a stupid cheap shot but instead report me to a mod. What makes you think I didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/94 "2008-09-05T01:46:54Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > You really see a difference based on which schools people go to? I find this attitude not simply elitist, but wrong-headed. > > A college degree is a practical necessity for a lot of things, but when I’m looking at someone’s qualifications I don’t give a fig about where they went to get their undergraduate degree. I’m more concerned with what they’ve done since getting that degree. Well, being a mayor and governor in the least populated, most isolated state in the Union is hardly an accomplisment compared to her peer group IMHO. Sorry but I equate “barracuda” and a “pit bull with lipstick” with “shrill bitch who won’t shut the fuck up.” I don’t consider the singleminded agressiveness of a barracuda or pit bull to be particularly desirable in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/95 "2008-09-05T01:54:33Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Sorry but I equate “barracuda” and a “pit bull with lipstick” with “shrill bitch who won’t shut the fuck up.” I don’t consider the singleminded agressiveness of a barracuda or pit bull to be particularly desirable in politics. But the people who voted for George Bush for those very attributes, do. Hence, they’re pandering to their base with her. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/96 "2008-09-05T02:04:01Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] But the people who voted for George Bush for those very attributes, do. Hence, they’re pandering to their base with her. [/QUOTE] Oh gods! There goes another irony meter. And you owe me a new monitor to…this one has Dr. Pepper sprayed all over it… (This was a joke right? Tell me you were joking here…please) -XT ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/97 "2008-09-05T02:17:44Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Oh gods! There goes another irony meter. And you owe me a new monitor to…this one has Dr. Pepper sprayed all over it… > > (This was a joke right? Tell me you were joking here…please) > > -XT It’s serious. President Bush is a barracuda with lipstick. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/98 "2008-09-05T02:19:13Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] It’s serious. President Bush is a barracuda with lipstick. [/QUOTE] Oh, I agree with THAT completely…though I’ve never seen the lipstick. That’s not what broke the irony meter though… -XT ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/99 "2008-09-05T02:26:16Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Well, being a mayor and governor in the least populated, most isolated state in the Union is hardly an accomplisment compared to her peer group IMHO. I’m confused, here. Why are you addressing Palin at all, in response to my post that you quoted? I have said nothing to indicate that I believe that Sarah Palin has performed any sort of post-college feat to mark her as being particularly accomplished, however you choose to define that term. Every post of mine since my first one in this thread has been to refute the claim that was made that one must matriculate from an elite school to prove one’s intellectual capability. If you want to address my view of Sarah Palin’s capabilities, please go back to my first post in this thread, where I said, in effect, that we have no reason to assume that she can do the job of president. Nothing I’ve said since then has contradicted that position. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951/100 "2008-09-05T03:23:28Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Palin’s a ‘religious rightie’, but she’s the Alaska variety, which is a far different animal than what you might find in the deep south. Do tell. Maybe you could start by telling us what you know about religious righties in the deep south and how you know it. Palin seems _exactly_ like any number of small-town religious righties I have known in the “deep south.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/independents-what-do-you-think-of-palin/461951.md?page=6)