# India and Pakistan: tensions escalating **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 26, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262 "2019-02-26T23:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/1 "2019-02-26T23:22:56Z")
Over the last couple of days things have been heating up between India and Pakistan. The Indian Air Force launched a strike on a terrorist camp in Pakistan. Depending on who you asked, they either killed hundreds of terrorists or bombed an isolated wooded area. Either way, both sides have begun moving men and material towards disputed borders. There are reports of [cross](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/five-soldiers-injured-as-pakistan-resorts-to-heavy-shelling-along-loc-in-jammu-and-kashmir/articleshow/68174930.cms)-[border](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/indian-shelling-kills-civilians-pakistan-administered-kashmir-190226190841703.html) shelling. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/2 "2019-02-27T00:32:15Z")
While it’s in one of your links, at the bottom of the story, the build up should be highlighted. There was a VBIED (Vehicle Borne Improvised Explosive Device) attack on Indian security forces on 14 Feb. Jaish-e-Mohammad a Pakistan based islamist terror organization claimed responsibility and reports link the dead bomber to the group. That attack killed 40 “police.” (The Central Reserve Police Force is better understood as a paramilitary force due to being trained and equipped for counterinsurgency among other missions. They are police that count mortars among their normal equipment.) The attack happened in Kashmir which has been disputed between India and Pakistan since the British withdrew in 1947. It’s seen overt fighting in the past. More recently the dispute has largely been smaller border skirmishes and supporting proxies operating as terrorists or insurgents. It was already a flash point between them even before this relatively high profile JeM attack. Indian general elections are scheduled in April-May just to add extra pressure for the government to do something in response. The wiki page for the [2019 Pulwama attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Pulwama_attack) seems pretty decent as a roll up and reasonably cited on a quick skim. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/3 "2019-02-27T07:22:08Z")
[_The Washington Post_ is reporting](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2019/02/27/pakistan-said-it-shot-down-two-indian-aircraft-in-its-airspace-and-launched-airstrikes-in-indian-held-territory-in-kashmir/?utm_term=.b3492c6d8637) that Pakistan is claiming to have shot down two Indian aircraft in Pakistani airspace and launched airstrikes in Indian-held Kashmir. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/4 "2019-02-27T07:44:50Z")
That could make things exciting. We don’t often get air-to-air combat these days, especially between nuclear powers. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/5 "2019-02-27T07:45:13Z")
Tell me about it. Fighters on CAP all last night. I lived next next to air bases growing up for a few years. U had forgotten just how **loud** fighter jets are. Been swamped with work last three weeks and now I have my own little private air show. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/6 "2019-02-27T07:57:33Z")
India claims to have shot down a Pakistani F-16 as well now: > [@](#): > > Pakistan Air Force’s F-16 that violated Indian air space shot down in Indian retaliatory fire 3KM within Pakistan territory in Lam valley, Nowshera sector. [source](https://mobile.twitter.com/ANI/status/1100644064452472832) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/7 "2019-02-27T08:09:39Z")
And an IAF Mi-17 is apparently down as well: [https://mobile.twitter.com/gulf\_news/status/1100643578794123264](https://mobile.twitter.com/gulf_news/status/1100643578794123264) > [@](#): > > India-Pakistan conflict live: The aircraft that crashed in Jammu & Kashmir’s Budgam was Indian Air Force’s Mi-17 transport helicopter. (link: [India-Pakistan conflict: Pakistan says US stance has 'emboldened' India | India – Gulf News](http://bit.ly/2SpyOdi)) bit.ly/2SpyOdi ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/8 "2019-02-27T09:19:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > India claims to have shot down a Pakistani F-16 as well now: > > [source](https://mobile.twitter.com/ANI/status/1100644064452472832) Untrue. No F16 were used in the op. An Indian MiG-21 “Bison” was shot down.”, along with a Su-30 MKI. An Mi-17 was fired upon, but per reports, escaped. Pilots captured. > ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/9 "2019-02-27T09:44:05Z")
The captured pilot is a son of an Indian Air Force Air Marshal (Lt Gen) and appeared in a [documentary on the Su-30MKI.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZitItZ8lFk) (He speaks at 2:50 or so). ETA: I noticed after 2 hours of denying everything, the Indians [have finally issued a press release saying that he is missin](https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1100684776313417729)g. Yeah, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/10 "2019-02-27T12:02:43Z")
The odds of this settling down are slim and none. I have to catch up on all the nuances of the equipment and weaponry – aside from nukes. Pretty much can ensure an escalation of terrorism inside India now. . ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/11 "2019-02-27T12:36:19Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > The odds of this settling down are slim and none. > > I have to catch up on all the nuances of the equipment and weaponry – aside from nukes. Pretty much can ensure an escalation of terrorism inside India now. > > . :dubious: **Giggles** While reading up on the weapons, you should also find out about the politcis. Already the Indian Government is under attack by its opposition, after the Pakistani PM (after the shootdown of IAF planes), [called for restraint again](https://www.dawn.com/news/1466364). Going to war requires much more political will. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/12 "2019-02-27T14:11:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :dubious: > **Giggles** > While reading up on the weapons, you should also find out about the politcis. Already the Indian Government is under attack by its opposition, after the Pakistani PM (after the shootdown of IAF planes), [called for restraint again](https://www.dawn.com/news/1466364). > Going to war requires much more political will. > :rolleyes: I wouldn’t be surprised if this pretty much ends it for now. Some possible negotiation over the captured, but it seems to me like both sides made their point. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/13 "2019-02-27T18:16:49Z")
From Twitter: > [@](#): > > [Extremely heavy mortar shelling from both sides happening now in the Akhnoor sector of Jammu. Increased presence of fighter jets in the region.](https://twitter.com/StratSentinel/status/1100812411496480771) > [@](#): > > [Indian navy reportedly on the move](https://twitter.com/StratSentinel/status/1100817334841864192) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/14 "2019-02-27T21:07:51Z")
I’m a tad skeptical of the “confirmed” claim, but there are certainly some claims that things might be escalating still: > [@](#): > > [#BREAKING: It is now confirmed that #India Air Force has heavily massed its fighters at Srinagar & Adampur Air Bases tonight. Even an Il-78MKI tanker has come a long way from Agra AFS. Several Su-30MKIs & MiG-29UPGs are now flying over #Kashmir.](https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1100857230226870273) I’ve also seen claims of blackouts happening in Pakistan near the LoC. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/15 "2019-02-27T21:32:06Z")
As a military man once said > [@Gen. Jack D. Ripper](#): > > It looks like we’re in a shooting war. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/16 "2019-02-27T21:51:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Untrue. No F16 were used in the op. An Indian MiG-21 “Bison” was shot down.”, along with a Su-30 MKI. > An Mi-17 was fired upon, but per reports, escaped. > Pilots captured. > > [https://twitter.com/dhudhinaeem/status/1100686058872815616?s=12](https://twitter.com/dhudhinaeem/status/1100686058872815616?s=12) MIG-21s? In the 21st century? That’s on par with charging tanks with cavalry, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/17 "2019-02-27T22:06:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > MIG-21s? In the 21st century? That’s on par with charging tanks with cavalry, isn’t it? Sort of, but the Indian MiGs have been updated significantly. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/18 "2019-02-27T22:12:06Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s on par with charging tanks with cavalry, isn’t it? MiG-21 **Bison**. The Bison’s a 2006 upgrade that includes improved avionics, radar and communications. Additionally the upgrade include the ability to fire more modern munitions including improved air to air missiles. It’s due to be be phased out starting this year but it’s not the same aircraft that you are probably thinking of from the 50s. ([Cite](https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/how-indias-legacy-fighter-jet-downed-pakistan-f-16-10-things-to-know-about-mig-21-bison-2000291)) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/19 "2019-02-27T23:26:54Z")
Pakistan still has all airports shut down. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/20 "2019-02-28T00:22:31Z")
AK84, feel free to correct me on this, but wasn’t the IAF bombing raid on Balakot the first time the IAF has bombed targets on undisputed Pakistani soil since 1971? As opposed to airstrikes in POK or other disputed territory during, e.g., the Kargil War? That’s what caught my eye when I read about the raid a day ago. Also, it looks like the Indian Navy [may be sortieing](https://twitter.com/StanteaR_/status/1100888778091180034) one of their [carriers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Vikramaditya) north. (Not sure how you can’t see that a 45,000 ton CV isn’t there anymore, but whatever). Is an attempted Indian Navy blockade of Karachi in the near future? Anyone have any idea what the goals of each side might be in continuing to escalate this dispute? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262.md?page=2)