# India and Pakistan: tensions escalating **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 26, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262 "2019-02-26T23:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/61 "2019-08-07T03:45:26Z")
And Ladakh is now designated a special district, and they appear to be rejoicing. However it seems there are serious concerns as well, in regards to China. I read they’ve been lending money to the monasteries, in substantial amounts. That could seriously complicate things, I think. It’s frightening to see people fleeing…in anticipation of what will come. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/62 "2019-08-07T06:35:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > And Ladakh is now designated a special district, and they appear to be rejoicing. However it seems there are serious concerns as well, in regards to China. I read they’ve been lending money to the monasteries, in substantial amounts. That could seriously complicate things, I think. > > It’s frightening to see people fleeing…in anticipation of what will come. Pakistan really does not want Hindu Jummu or Buddhist Ladakh. India has no desire for Muslim Gilgit and Skardu. Its really only the Valley were the dispute is. I suspect Gilgit-Baltistan will be made a province of Pakistan in response. The Indians had a hissy fit when it was stood up back in 2009…this will really make them mad. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/63 "2019-08-07T10:00:56Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > �� > Positive step… if your aim is to cause much more internal instability within the Indian Union. Make even pro India Kashmiri politicians turn against the center. Cause other secessionist insurgent elswhere to redouble their efforts towards militancy rather than dialogue > Yeah, if that was the aim, it was the best step ever. No need to shed tears for our Indian Union, thank you. We will take care of ours. There is no such animal as a “pro India Kashmiri politician”. We have seen this in the last 70 years. What Article 370 did was dilute Indian administrative control, and thereby allow Pakistan to meddle in Kashmir, buy/threaten/bully Kashmiri leaders in service of its violent secessionist agenda. India has been extremely stupid to have legislated A370 in the first place, allowing Pakistan to manufacture a “dispute” that Kashmir was contested territory, when in reality there was none. It was all done and dusted in the 1965 war. Militant secessionist efforts need to be put down militarily. When people come to their senses, the Indian Union is usually more than willing to negotiate and accommodate legitimate demands. But this is not what happened in Kashmir: India gave a limited-time special status to Kashmir, which the Kashmiris turned into a weapon against India. The special status was a privilege granted by the Indian Union, not a right. They misused it, and it got taken away. > [@](#): > > Pakistan really does not want Hindu Jummu or Buddhist Ladakh. India has no desire for Muslim Gilgit and Skardu. Its really only the Valley were the dispute is. > > I suspect Gilgit-Baltistan will be made a province of Pakistan in response. The Indians had a hissy fit when it was stood up back in 2009…this will really make them mad. I stated this: India does not recognize Kashmir as a “dispute”, regardless of what Pakistan, WaPo and NYT may tell you. Kashmir is constitutionally a part of India. Whether we give or revoke special statuses, that’s our business. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/64 "2019-08-07T10:41:18Z")
If what **mandela** states is the actual thinking in India, then the country is fucked. If you couldn’t control a area with 500,000 troops, you sure as hell aren’t going to with 700,000. Or 900,000. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/65 "2019-08-07T11:10:06Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > If what **mandela** states is the actual thinking in India, then the country is fucked. > If you couldn’t control a area with 500,000 troops, you sure as hell aren’t going to with 700,000. Or 900,000. It did appear for a while in 1989 that India was fucked, with a raging Pakistan-sponsored insurgency in Kashmir. It is difficult to control territory or population when an armed insurgency is being fed by an external military power (US-Taliban-Pakistan ring a bell?). But India’s armed forces are better than you think. Gradually the insurgency was put down, and now there is no way in hell Pakistan can take Kashmir by force. So India is quite OK, and not fucked at all. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/66 "2019-08-07T13:59:33Z")
Does India’s military proficiency have anything to do with Indian regiments that served in the British Army? ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/67 "2019-08-07T19:39:47Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > No need to shed tears for our Indian Union, thank you. We will take care of ours. There is no such animal as a “pro India Kashmiri politician”. We have seen this in the last 70 years. What Article 370 did was dilute Indian administrative control, and thereby allow Pakistan to meddle in Kashmir, buy/threaten/bully Kashmiri leaders in service of its violent secessionist agenda. India has been extremely stupid to have legislated A370 in the first place, allowing Pakistan to manufacture a “dispute” that Kashmir was contested territory, when in reality there was none. It was all done and dusted in the 1965 war. > > Militant secessionist efforts need to be put down militarily. When people come to their senses, the Indian Union is usually more than willing to negotiate and accommodate legitimate demands. But this is not what happened in Kashmir: India gave a limited-time special status to Kashmir, which the Kashmiris turned into a weapon against India. The special status was a privilege granted by the Indian Union, not a right. They misused it, and it got taken away. > I stated this: India does not recognize Kashmir as a “dispute”, regardless of what Pakistan, WaPo and NYT may tell you. Kashmir is constitutionally a part of India. Whether we give or revoke special statuses, that’s our business. I’d like to know more about this “limited time special status” and “privilege and not a right.” The articles I’ve read in mainstream US media state that essentially part of the Indian constitution has been revoked unilaterally by Modi. Have the US media gotten this wrong, or have I misinterpreted what I’ve read? ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/68 "2019-08-07T21:43:51Z")
Article 370 was a special, temporary and transitional provision granted to the State of Jammu and Kashmir (J&K). The serving Indian President issued a constitutional order revoking the original 1954 order, which the Indian President is empowered to do in consultation with the J&K Constituent Assembly. Since the J&K Constituent Assembly (conveniently) dissolved itself without making a recommendation, the President acted with the concurrence of the Governor of J&K, a standard and recognized practice for Indian states that do not have an Assembly for whatever reason. Modi could have done nothing without the concurrence of the President and J&K Governor. Article 370 came in via a Presidential Order, and was revoked the same way. What Modi supplied was the political will to get the thing done. The US media coverage has been along predictable lines - Modi is a Hindu nationalist ogre out to destroy the identity of the only Muslim-majority state of India, Modi is a malevolent anti-Muslim leader yada yada. The US/UK media is Left-leaning and carries a clear anti-Hindu, anti-India bias - the more “liberal” the media outlet is, the more pronounced this bias. It is disappointing, but nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/69 "2019-08-07T22:26:50Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > The US/UK media is Left-leaning and carries a clear anti-Hindu, anti-India bias - the more “liberal” the media outlet is, the more pronounced this bias. It is disappointing, but nothing new. I agree with that. I am also of Indian origin for full disclosure. It is also to be noted that Muslims in India have their own personal law. [Muslim personal law - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_personal_law_in_India) The Muslim law allows them polygamy, the daughters only inherit a fraction of the family wealth, etc. Its almost like Mormons having their own laws spelled out in the US constitution. Any attempted reforms to the laws is portrayed as discriminatory while many of these laws are outdated and leads to misery. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262/70 "2019-08-07T23:18:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Article 370 of the Indian constitution gave special status to the region of Jammu and Kashmir, allowing it to have a separate constitution, a state flag and autonomy over the internal administration of the state. > > The article was drafted in Part XXI of the Constitution: Transitional and Special Provisions. The Constituent Assembly of Jammu and Kashmir, after its establishment, was empowered to recommend the articles of the Indian constitution that should be applied to the state or to abrogate the Article 370 altogether. After consultation with the state’s Constituent Assembly, the 1954 Presidential Order was issued, specifying the articles of the Indian constitution that applied to the state. Since the Constituent Assembly dissolved itself without recommending the abrogation of Article 370, the article was deemed to have become a permanent feature of the Indian Constitution. > **[Article 370 of the Constitution of India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_370_of_the_Constitution_of_India)** > > Article 370 of the Indian constitution\[a\] > gave special status to Jammu and Kashmir, a region located in the northern part of the Indian subcontinent and part of the larger region of Kashmir which has been the subject of a dispute between India, Pakistan and China since 1947. Jammu and Kashmir was administered by India as a state from 17 November 1952 to 31 October 2019, and Article 370 conferred on it the power to have a separate constitution, a state flag, and autonomy of internal administ A... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-pakistan-tensions-escalating/830262.md?page=3)