# India and rape. What the hell is going on over there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501 "2014-05-28T21:26:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/1 "2014-05-28T21:26:26Z")
Hello Everyone, I was reading an article on a Indian news site (the Country of India) and when I finished the article I looked at the linked articles. Out of the eight links six were about rapes or gang rapes. Clicking on those article I found more links referencing even more rapes. What the hell India? Why does there seem to be so many women raped in that country? Is rape overlooked by the authorities or something? Is it a favorite pastime there, national sport? I don’t know why, but reading those articles and seeing how many rapes there appears to be really pisses me off. What the hell is wrong with the men in India or am I seeing something that isn’t as bad as I think it is? Also, one of the articles mentioned a “love marriage”. Am I correct in thinking that it means a couple wed for love vs an arranged marriage? It must be because some poor woman was stoned to death by her father and brothers for entering into a love marriage. Way to stay classy there India. ---
**Author:** ![PurpleClogs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f04885/32.png) [@PurpleClogs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PurpleClogs)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/2 "2014-05-28T22:07:37Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Also, one of the articles mentioned a “love marriage”. Am I correct in thinking that it means a couple wed for love vs an arranged marriage? . Yes, much of India still practices arranged marriage, although some change is happening. The rape crisis is happening in some African countries as well. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/3 "2014-05-28T22:09:51Z")
Given the tone of the OP, I think this will be better off in Great Debates than GQ, at least for now. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![SandMan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7993a0/32.png) [@SandMan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandMan1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/4 "2014-05-28T22:23:23Z")
I have read many articles that have stated that **US** is the country with the most rapes. USA is the rape capital of the world. And yet India only ranks third for the number of rapes reported each year. What country ranks first? The United States. In India, a country of over 1.2 billion people, 24,206 rapes were reported in 2011. The same year in the United States, a nation of 300 million, 83,425 rapes were reported. In the United States, every 6.2 minutes a woman is raped. [http://www.more.com/news/india-rape-capital-world](http://www.more.com/news/india-rape-capital-world) [http://listtoptens.com/top-10-countries-with-highest-rape-crime/](http://listtoptens.com/top-10-countries-with-highest-rape-crime/) The rape problem **seems** worse in India because it is now getting a lot of national and world attention. Many more cases are being reported and the media is giving it a lot of space (which is a good thing). But note that the conviction rate for such crimes is very high in India. Compare that to the US where colleges and universities try and hide rape statistics. [http://world.time.com/2013/11/08/why-rape-seems-worse-in-india-than-everywhere-else-but-actually-isnt/](http://world.time.com/2013/11/08/why-rape-seems-worse-in-india-than-everywhere-else-but-actually-isnt/) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/5 "2014-05-28T22:29:48Z")
> [@SandMan1](#): > > I have read many articles that have stated that **US** is the country with the most rapes. USA is the rape capital of the world. > > And yet India only ranks third for the number of rapes \*\*reported \*\*each year. What country ranks first? The United States. In India, a country of over 1.2 billion people, 24,206 rapes were reported in 2011. The same year in the United States, a nation of 300 million, 83,425 rapes were reported. In the United States, every 6.2 minutes a woman is raped. > > [http://www.more.com/news/india-rape-capital-world](http://www.more.com/news/india-rape-capital-world) > [http://listtoptens.com/top-10-countries-with-highest-rape-crime/](http://listtoptens.com/top-10-countries-with-highest-rape-crime/) > > The rape problem **seems** worse in India because it is now getting a lot of national and world attention. Many more cases are being reported and the media is giving it a lot of space (which is a good thing). But note that the conviction rate for such crimes is very high in India. Compare that to the US where colleges and universities try and hide rape statistics. > > [http://world.time.com/2013/11/08/why-rape-seems-worse-in-india-than-everywhere-else-but-actually-isnt/](http://world.time.com/2013/11/08/why-rape-seems-worse-in-india-than-everywhere-else-but-actually-isnt/) Emphasis on reported. In societies where there is a lot of mysogyny, shame, sexual repression or where rape is not taken seriously by the authorities the rates of reported rapes is going to be lower. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/6 "2014-05-28T22:29:53Z")
Huh. When I reported it I figured it would go to the pit. Anyway OP, here’s a link to an older thread on the topic, where it has been discussed at great length. > **[India: Are the gang rapes at all representative of the culture towards women...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=679037)** > > (This is not meant to be inflammatory or insulting, so don’t take it that way. This is a matter of ignorance that I wish fought.) To this clueless Californian, when I think “India” I imagine things like: yoga, peace-leaving Hindus, Gandhi, extreme... ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/7 "2014-05-28T22:31:35Z")
I wouldn’t pay any heed at all to which country has the most rapes reported. Convert those numbers into at least an estimate of the number actually committed, and then we’ll talk. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/8 "2014-05-28T22:43:14Z")
If you think India is bad, check out New Guinea. Outside the cities, a woman walking alone is believed to be asking for it. Really asking for it. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/9 "2014-05-28T22:48:01Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Huh. When I reported it I figured it would go to the pit. Anyway OP, here’s a link to an older thread on the topic, where it has been discussed at great length. > > [India: Are the gang rapes at all representative of the culture towards women there? - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=679037) Thanks. And what amazed me ant so much the statistical reporting of the rapes, buy the sheer amount of coverage on that new site I was on. It almost seemed like they were reporting sports scores. Someone unfamiliar with India would get the impression by raging their news that India’s most participated social event is rape. I just found it shocking. And I’m under no illusion that rape is noon-existent in the US, but I can’t ever recall reading a newspaper here and seeing: Weather Rape Rape Dear Abby More Rape Comics ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/10 "2014-05-28T22:50:41Z")
> **[Rape statistics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#India)** > > Statistics on rape and other acts of sexual assault are commonly available in industrialized countries, and have become better documented throughout the world. Inconsistent definitions of rape, different rates of reporting, recording, prosecution and conviction for rape can create controversial statistical disparities, and lead to accusations that many rape statistics are unreliable or misleading. > In some jurisdictions, male and female rape is the only form of rape counted in the statistics. ... > [@](#): > > Sexual violence [in India] within marriage is common, with 20% of men admitting to forcing their wives or partners to have sex, in a survey by the Centre of Research on Women, US, and Instituto Promundon in Brazil Keep in mind those are just the ones that admitted to it, and those are just ones who admitted to raping their wives (as opposed to raping someone else like girlfriends, strangers, female family members, male family members). This also ignored female sexual abusers. That means at minimum, 1/5 of Indian men are admitted rapists. The idea that in a given year only 0.004% of women are raped (based on the statistics of about 580 million women and 24k reported rapes a year) when a minimum of 20% of men are admitted rapists makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/11 "2014-05-28T22:55:50Z")
> [@SandMan1](#): > > The rape problem **seems** worse in India because it is now getting a lot of national and world attention. No, it seems worse because women in India are discouraged from reporting rape because victims get punished, sometimes _instead of_ their rapists. Generally speaking reporting a rape in the US won’t get you stoned to death. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/12 "2014-05-28T23:01:06Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Thanks. And what amazed me ant so much the statistical reporting of the rapes, buy the sheer amount of coverage on that new site I was on. It almost seemed like they were reporting sports scores. Someone unfamiliar with India would get the impression by raging their news that India’s most participated social event is rape. I just found it shocking. And I’m under no illusion that rape is noon-existent in the US, but I can’t ever recall reading a newspaper here and seeing: > > Weather > Rape > Rape > Dear Abby > More Rape > Comics ? In terms of reported incidents of rape, the US has four times as many as India. The only reason you don’t see papers like that is because American papers don’t think of it as news. If news sites in India are prominently reporting rapes and thus bringing pressure on authorities and society to do something about the problem, surely that’s a _good_ thing? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/13 "2014-05-28T23:02:26Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > No, it seems worse because women in India are discouraged from reporting rape because victims get punished, sometimes _instead of_ their rapists. Generally speaking reporting a rape in the US won’t get you stoned to death. Cite that reporting a rape will get you stoned to death in India? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/14 "2014-05-28T23:14:40Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > [Rape statistics - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#India) > > Keep in mind those are just the ones that admitted to it, and those are just ones who admitted to raping their wives (as opposed to raping someone else like girlfriends, strangers, female family members, male family members). This also ignored female sexual abusers. > > That means at minimum, 1/5 of Indian men are admitted rapists. The idea that in a given year only 0.004% of women are raped (based on the statistics of about 580 million women and 24k reported rapes a year) when a minimum of 20% of men are admitted rapists makes no sense. I looked up the survey those domestic violence findings are from. It samples 1500 men total (it samples more -2000 - from Rwanda) from India, and ALL the men it samples from India come from two metropolitan areas - 70% from Delhi, which is notoriously, and correctly, deplored for having terrible attitudes towards women, and the remaining 30% from a small city called Vijaywada, which is actually in Andhra Pradesh, but which the survey wrongly locates in Tamil Nadu, and I have absolutely no idea why they went there. Long story short, I wouldn’t trust that survey’s numbers, and I most certainly wouldn’t extrapolate them to India as a whole. Here is the report, in case anyone wants to check, you need page 13 [http://www.promundo.org.br/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Evolving-Men-IMAGES-1.pdf](http://www.promundo.org.br/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Evolving-Men-IMAGES-1.pdf) To your larger point, that India’s rape numbers are probably underreported to a large degree, you’re right they probably are, but I have never seen any evidence(or even a good estimate) for what that degree is, nor have I seen any credible evidence that it should be significantly worse than average. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/15 "2014-05-28T23:23:05Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Also, one of the articles mentioned a “love marriage”. Am I correct in thinking that it means a couple wed for love vs an arranged marriage? It must be because some poor woman was stoned to death by her father and brothers for entering into a love marriage. Way to stay classy there India. (shrug) It seems that the [del]21st[/del] [del]20th[/del] 19th Century hasn’t happened everywhere yet. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/16 "2014-05-28T23:25:02Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I looked up the survey those domestic violence findings are from. It samples 1500 men total (it samples more -2000 - from Rwanda) from India, and ALL the men it samples from India come from two metropolitan areas - 70% from Delhi, which is notoriously, and correctly, deplored for having terrible attitudes towards women, and the remaining 30% from a small city called Vijaywada, which is actually in Andhra Pradesh, but which the survey wrongly locates in Tamil Nadu, and I have absolutely no idea why they went there. Long story short, I wouldn’t trust that survey’s numbers, and I most certainly wouldn’t extrapolate them to India as a whole. > > Here is the report, in case anyone wants to check, you need page 13 [http://www.promundo.org.br/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Evolving-Men-IMAGES-1.pdf](http://www.promundo.org.br/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Evolving-Men-IMAGES-1.pdf) > > To your larger point, that India’s rape numbers are probably underreported to a large degree, you’re right they probably are, but I have never seen any evidence(or even a good estimate) for what that degree is, nor have I seen any credible evidence that it should be significantly worse than average. Delhi reported 489 rapes in a year out of 22 million people, so roughly 10.5 million women. That implies in a given year in Delhi about 0.005% women report being raped. This roughly matches with national reported rates of about 0.004%. How does that imply the study is wrong? Are you implying outside of Delhi, India is a far stronger bastion of women’s rights and that just happens to be a city that is several standard deviations to the right on sexual violence? What evidence do you have of that? Are you implying the reported rates of rape are the same outside of Delhi, but the actual number of rapes is far lower outside of Delhi? Why would women outside Delhi be more likely to report rape? Also Delhi is a metro area, not a rural area. If anything you would assume a rural area would have more backwards attitudes towards women’s rights and sexual violence than a large international city. I don’t know how much it extrapolates to other nations, but in the US the large cities tend to be more progressive than the rural areas. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/17 "2014-05-28T23:40:12Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > … > Also Delhi is a metro area, not a rural area. If anything you would assume a rural area would have more backwards attitudes towards women’s rights and sexual violence than a large international city. I don’t know how much it extrapolates to other nations, but in the US the large cities tend to be more progressive than the rural areas. Actually, recent reports seem to [indicate](http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/02/opinion/sutter-change-alaska-rape/) that rape is more common in rural states of the US. By comparison, New Jersey and New York have very low levels of reported rape. Of course, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread, the extent to which the reported statistics match actual occurrence is an open question. How would one measure the “actual” rate of rape if it isn’t getting reported? ---
**Author:** ![SandMan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7993a0/32.png) [@SandMan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandMan1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/18 "2014-05-28T23:41:48Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > No, it seems worse because women in India are discouraged from reporting rape because victims get punished, sometimes _instead of_ their rapists. Generally speaking reporting a rape in the US won’t get you stoned to death. What? Who is stoning you to death for reporting a rape in India? The White House recently released guidelines for handling rapes on college campuses. Many colleges are being investigated for mishandling rape and even hiding rape statistics and protecting the rapist. [http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/05/here-are-the-55-colleges-being-investigated-for-allegedly-mishandling-rape-cases/361517/](http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/05/here-are-the-55-colleges-being-investigated-for-allegedly-mishandling-rape-cases/361517/) India has one of the highest rape related convictions in the world! ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/19 "2014-05-29T00:16:51Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Delhi reported 489 rapes in a year out of 22 million people, so roughly 10.5 million women. That implies in a given year in Delhi about 0.005% women report being raped. This roughly matches with national reported rates of about 0.004%. How does that imply the study is wrong? Are you implying outside of Delhi, India is a far stronger bastion of women’s rights and that just happens to be a city that is several standard deviations to the right on sexual violence? What evidence do you have of that? Are you implying the reported rates of rape are the same outside of Delhi, but the actual number of rapes is far lower outside of Delhi? Why would women outside Delhi be more likely to report rape? > > Also Delhi is a metro area, not a rural area. If anything you would assume a rural area would have more backwards attitudes towards women’s rights and sexual violence than a large international city. I don’t know how much it extrapolates to other nations, but in the US the large cities tend to be more progressive than the rural areas. All the conclusions that you draw from the survey(which has piss poor sampling, and doesn’t know where its own samples are drawn from) are about domestic violence in India, when at most you could talk about Delhi. That badly biases the sample because Delhi is widely recognised for its high incidence of violence against women. And I don’t know where you’re getting the Delhi rape data from, but that’s wrong too, as is the population data. > [@](#): > > According to a recent compilation of data by Delhi Police, a copy of which is available with IANS, 616 rapes and 1,336 molestation cases were registered between January 1 and April 30 — a 36% increase in rape cases compared to around 450 cases registered in the same period last year. Your urban/rural distinction is important, but the conclusions you draw are incorrect. More conservative does not equate more rapes. I’ll give you my theory for why this is, you’re free to accept it or not as you wish. Most of North India is highly patriarchal, and the rural areas in particular _are_ very conservative. However, they’ve been this way for centuries, and have developed social conventions and norms to deal with it. Women are married early, and are rarely, if ever alone or independent. This is not a good state of affairs by any means, but it has evolved to keep non domestic violence/rapes against women to a minimum, and there is no reason to think that rapes (outside of marital rape) in rural areas in India are an order of magnitude higher than reported. I repeat, this is not a desirable state of affairs, and marital rape needs to and must be included in this, but I would remind you that the taboo against domestic violence is relatively recent even in western society. Marital rape was only criminalised in all of the US in 1993. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/20 "2014-05-29T00:43:33Z")
I don’t have any clue about the _actual_ as distinct from reported rape rates in India, but I will say I have some family in Delhi and they uniformly complain about how difficult life is there for women, in terms of sexual harassment. I also have family in Bombay and in the south, and things there are generally supposed to be better. On second glance, I see that **bldysabba** says the same thing. Also, even in terms of reported rapes, the US is far from the highest in the world. I believe that dubious honour belongs to South Africa and Lesotho. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501.md?page=2)