# India and rape. What the hell is going on over there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501 "2014-05-28T21:26:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/21 "2014-05-29T00:43:41Z")
What India is going through at present is not so much a rape explosion as a rape **awareness** explosion. The [2012 Delhi bus rape](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape) generated unprecedented levels of public outrage and seems to have broken the longstanding stigma against discussing rape as a public policy issue. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/22 "2014-05-29T01:25:20Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Cite that reporting a rape will get you stoned to death in India? I was wondering about that so I did a search on India stoning. This came up. [Indian Girl Who Reported Rape Threatened With Stoning After Being Placed Behind Bars | HuffPost The World Post](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3069177/) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/23 "2014-05-29T02:04:00Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Weather > Rape > Rape > Dear Abby > More Rape > Comics I nominate this for “Weirdest Set of _Trivial Pursuit_ Categories”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/24 "2014-05-29T08:03:27Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Also, even in terms of reported rapes, the US is far from the highest in the world. I believe that dubious honour belongs to South Africa and Lesotho. ☹ Sadly, this is true. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/25 "2014-05-29T15:18:46Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > I was reading an article on a Indian news site (the Country of India) and when I finished the article I looked at the linked articles. Out of the eight links six were about rapes or gang rapes. Clicking on those article I found more links referencing even more rapes. What the hell India? Why does there seem to be so many women raped in that country? Is rape overlooked by the authorities or something? Is it a favorite pastime there, national sport? To be clear, you have spotted that a country with a thousand million people in it had more than six rapes. Panic! ---
**Author:** ![SandMan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7993a0/32.png) [@SandMan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandMan1)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/26 "2014-05-29T15:51:31Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Your urban/rural distinction is important, but the conclusions you draw are incorrect. More conservative does not equate more rapes. I’ll give you my theory for why this is, you’re free to accept it or not as you wish. Most of North India is highly patriarchal, and the rural areas in particular _are_ very conservative. However, they’ve been this way for centuries, and have developed social conventions and norms to deal with it. Women are married early, and are rarely, if ever alone or independent. This is not a good state of affairs by any means, but it has evolved to keep non domestic violence/rapes against women to a minimum, and there is no reason to think that rapes (outside of marital rape) in rural areas in India are an order of magnitude higher than reported. I repeat, this is not a desirable state of affairs, and marital rape needs to and must be included in this, but I would remind you that the taboo against domestic violence is relatively recent even in western society. Marital rape was only criminalised in all of the US in 1993. I have to disagree with some of that. I agree that the there is no reason to believe that there would be a difference in the number of rapes per capita between urban and rural areas. But there are many reasons to believe that rapes that do occur in rural areas would be under-reported. [ol] [li]much lesser access to police in rural areas vs urban areas[/li][li]local bodies in rural areas may not deal with rape cases for many reasons[/li][li]more stigma against rape in rural areas[/li][li]lower rates of prosecution in rural areas[/li][li]vicitim is less likely to know the law and protections available[/li][/ol] I remember watching a documentary on BBC on India and Rape. This British-Indian girl in Delhi, complains to the police that a guy at a store touched her inappropriately. Within the course of the documentary (few weeks), the man was arrested and prosecuted at a fast track court. This wouldn’t have happened outside of a big city. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/27 "2014-05-29T16:07:42Z")
Can’t prove it so don’t ask me to but I’d be willing to bet that the definition of rape in the US is much different than in India. Everything we consider rape isn’t such in India. Or Pakistan. Or Nigeria. Or whatever backward ass country you want to throw in the mix. ---
**Author:** ![SandMan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7993a0/32.png) [@SandMan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandMan1)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/28 "2014-05-29T16:19:23Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Can’t prove it so don’t ask me to but I’d be willing to bet that the definition of rape in the US is much different than in India. Everything we consider rape isn’t such in India. Or Pakistan. Or Nigeria. Or whatever backward ass country you want to throw in the mix. You would lose that bet. An [amendment passed in 2013](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_(Amendment)_Act,_2013) makes the rape laws in India one of the strictest in the world. I don’t know about Pakistan or Nigeria. Why are they in the same pool as India? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/29 "2014-05-29T19:22:46Z")
I don’t think it’s just that there is a lot of rape in India, but there have been a lot of high profile gang rapes followed by the murder of the victims. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/30 "2014-05-29T21:47:25Z")
> [@SandMan1](#): > > I have to disagree with some of that. > > I agree that the there is no reason to believe that there would be a difference in the number of rapes per capita between urban and rural areas. But there are many reasons to believe that rapes that do occur in rural areas would be under-reported. I’m not saying that rapes in rural areas would not be under reported. I’m saying there’s no reason to believe that incidence of rape in rural areas is much higher than urban areas. In fact, there is reason to believe that rapes in rural areas could be lower because(rightly or wrongly) social norms and conventions have had time to adjust to conservative values. Indian rural areas are not like American rural areas. Villages are small clusters, houses are tightly packed together. Large families live together, women are married early and rarely alone. Cities are places where many people from this world co-exist with many women who are independent, who go to work everyday, go out with boyfriends, and are not bound by the same restrictive social structure that exists in villages. Most react to this by gradually changing their social norms. Unfortunately some react to it by raping. I think these sort of rapes(I’m not saying there are no others) also tend to be big news partly because they feed into inter-class fears. The highly publicised Delhi rape and killing is an example. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/31 "2014-05-29T22:30:37Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I was wondering about that so I did a search on India stoning. This came up. [Indian Girl Who Reported Rape Threatened With Stoning After Being Placed Behind Bars | HuffPost The World Post](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3069177/) What’s your point? One anecdote that the rapist’s family attempted(unsuccessfully) to intimidate the victim is equivalent to rape victims being “generally speaking” stoned to death in India? ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/32 "2014-05-30T07:54:24Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > No, it seems worse because women in India are discouraged from reporting rape because victims get punished, sometimes _instead of_ their rapists. Generally speaking reporting a rape in the US won’t get you stoned to death. Oh really? Stoning a rape victim to death happens in India? Dude, you dont happen to believe the badlands of Waziristan belong in India, do you? And that single cite you provided - is that all you could come up with, to support your sweeping statement about stoning rape victims to death? ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/33 "2014-05-30T08:03:19Z")
To the OP: nothing extraordinarily evil is going on in India. Not to say rape is not evil and violent, just that India is by no means the rape capital of the world. As noted upthread, that distinction belongs elsewhere, with the US not too far behind. Considering the US considers itself the pre-eminent civilization in the world, possessed of love, light, knowledge, yada yada, it really shouldn’t be in competition with Lesotho and India in rape statistics, but it is. Media in India highlight every known instance of rape, to increase awareness in society. I do not agree that blanket coverage is effective (beyond a point) but that’s how it is. The US is so used to rape that for the media it is a non-event. Rest assured rape is taken very seriously in India, and as pointed out upthread, the Indian Penal Code is very harsh in rape punishment. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/34 "2014-05-30T08:09:35Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Can’t prove it so don’t ask me to but I’d be willing to bet that the definition of rape in the US is much different than in India. Everything we consider rape isn’t such in India. Or Pakistan. Or Nigeria. Or whatever backward ass country you want to throw in the mix. Typical first-world arrogance. Your ridiculous comment on the definition of rape being different in India is plain BS. Oh, and I see you stated you couldn’t be bothered to post cites. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/35 "2014-05-30T08:11:51Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I’m not saying that rapes in rural areas would not be under reported. I’m saying there’s no reason to believe that incidence of rape in rural areas is much higher than urban areas. In fact, there is reason to believe that rapes in rural areas could be lower because(rightly or wrongly) social norms and conventions have had time to adjust to conservative values. Only because you are excluding marital rape by _fiat_. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/36 "2014-05-30T11:11:42Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Can’t prove it so don’t ask me to but I’d be willing to bet that the definition of rape in the US is much different than in India. Everything we consider rape isn’t such in India. Or Pakistan. Or Nigeria. Or whatever backward ass country you want to throw in the mix. Here’s Pakistan’s rape law: > [@](#): > > 1. Rape:- > A man is said to commit rape who has sexual intercourse with a woman under circumstances falling under any of the five following descriptions, > (i) against her will. > > (ii) without her consent > > (iii) with her consent, when the consent has been obtained by putting her in fear of death or of hurt, > > (iv) with her consent, when the man knows that he is not married to her and that the consent is given because she believes that the man is another person to whom she is or believes herself to be married; or > > (v) With or without her consent when she is under sixteen years of age. > Explanation: Penetration is sufficient to constitute the sexual intercourse necessary to the offence of rape. > > 1. Punishment for rape > (1) Whoever commits rape shall be punished with death or imprisonment of either description for a term which shall not be less than ten rears or more, than twenty-five years and shall also be liable to fine. > > (2) When rape is committed by two or more persons in furtherance of common intention of all, each of such persons shall be punished with death or imprisonment for life.". and here’s Nigeria’s > [@](#): > > 1. > > ``` > Any person who has unlawful carnal knowledge of a woman or girl, without her consent, or with her consent, if the consent is obtained by force or by means of threats or intimidation of any kind, or by fear of harm, or by means of false and fraudulent representation as to the nature of the act, or, in the case of a married woman, by personating her husband, is guilty of an offence which is called rape. > > ``` > > 2. > > ``` > Any person who commits the offence of rape is liable to imprisonment for life, with or without caning. > > ``` > > 3. > > ``` > Any person who attempts to commit the offence of rape is guilty of a felony, and is liable to imprisonment for fourteen years, with or without caning. > > ``` > > 4. > > ``` > Any person who unlawfully and indecently assaults a woman or girl is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable to imprisonment for two years. > > ``` > > 5. > > ``` > Any person who, with intent to marry or carnally know a female of any age, or to cause her to be married, or carnally known by any other person, takes her away, or detains her, against her will, is guilty of a felony, and is liable to imprisonment for seven years. > > ``` > > 6. > > ``` > Any person who unlawfully takes an unmarried girl under the age of sixteen years out of the custody or protection of her father or mother or other person having the lawful care or charge of her, and against the will of such father or mother or other person, is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable to imprisonment for two years. > > ``` > > 7. > > ``` > In the case of proceedings in respect of an offence under the preceding section- > > ``` > > (a) it is immaterial that the offender believed the girl to be of or above the age of sixteen years; > > (b) it is immaterial that the girl was taken with her own consent or at her own suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/37 "2014-05-30T15:42:45Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Can’t prove it so don’t ask me to but I’d be willing to bet that the definition of rape in the US is much different than in India. Willing to bet, but not willing to look it up. Yeah, that’s plausible. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/38 "2014-05-30T18:52:34Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > What’s your point? One anecdote that the rapist’s family attempted(unsuccessfully) to intimidate the victim is equivalent to rape victims being “generally speaking” stoned to death in India? As I said I was wondering do I did a search. That story came up, thought I’d share. Why are you so hostile? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/39 "2014-05-30T20:17:02Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > As I said I was wondering do I did a search. That story came up, thought I’d share. > Why are you so hostile? Did you read the comment on stoning that I was responding to, and in continuation of which exchange you posted your anecdote? Did you read the OP? _I’m_ the one that’s hostile? And in our interaction, I’ve not been hostile to you at all. I’ve asked you to clarify your point, and particularly if you believe it supports the contention that got this exchange started. If you did, then perhaps I might be hostile. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501/40 "2014-05-30T20:34:47Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > And in our interaction, I’ve not been hostile to you at all. I’ve asked you to clarify your point, and particularly if you believe it supports the contention that got this exchange started. If you did, then perhaps I might be hostile. To further clarify, I did not _intend_ to be hostile at all, and I apologise if I came across as such. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-and-rape-what-the-hell-is-going-on-over-there/689501.md?page=3)