# India: Are the gang rapes at all representative of the culture towards women there? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 15, 2013, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266 "2013-01-15T08:17:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/61 "2013-01-16T22:35:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m not talking about some distant past. This is exactly the problem (problem No. 1) that I identified in my post – India is very diverse, and whenever you try to talk about India as a whole, you get stuck in this mire of “not here it isn’t.” But TruthSeeker2, you are illustrating a second problem, which is that every individual wants to generalize his or her personal experience. > > It’s not relevant that in your experience you haven’t encountered these things. Because they _are_ happening _in the experience of other Indians_. To have any kind of reasonable, logical, productive discussion, you have to forget the “not in my experience” trap. It’s a fallacy. Just forget it. > > And here we go with problem No. 3 when trying to discuss social problems in India – the reflexive defensiveness. > > Anyone who is an N.R.I. is dismissed out of hand. Well, you know what, this is not the 1960s. N.R.I.s don’t leave the country and lose touch, having only the experience of their childhoods to refer to. Many N.R.I.s these days maintain very close ties to India, through frequent travel, through closely maintained family relationships and friendships, and through business. > > Indeed, many N.R.I.s can offer a much more balanced perspective on what is going on in India, not only because they lack this reflexive defensiveness but also because the experience of living outside of India and then being able to experience India closely from the inside gives you a clearer eye as to what is going on. I would suggest that Indians should check their pride and take what N.R.I.s offer a bit more seriously. > > Here is another manifestation of problem No. 3 – India gets unfairly criticized on the global stage. Well, actually, no it doesn’t. By and far, India has a very good reputation in the United States and in other places (you can give N.R.I.s substantial credit for that). And when India does face criticism, it is generally fair and proportionate and it unfortunately tends to dissipate before any real reform is undertaken. Both Indians and N.R.I.s tend to get very defensive whenever there is criticism of India, and this doesn’t help improve things. **Acsenray** , while it is quite clear that there is a lot of “So what if you don’t want to come to India, we don’t need you” to **truthseeker’s** attitude, it was in response to something you blame him for doing - i.e generalising a personal experience. What’s worse, it’s generalising the personal experience of someone who has much less current personal experience with what’s relevant. I’m all for listening to NRIs, and completely agree with you that they do have important contributions to make to the direction that India should take. They’re a large part, in fact, almost exclusively the only reason why India has the good reputation it does. But statements like “We don’t want to come back to India because it is such a shithole” does them no credit, and is not about to get them taken seriously by people who live in that shithole, don’t you think? There are far more constructive ways to criticise. To your credit, I never sense this attitude from you, your criticism is typically fair, and even in this case you are only reporting someone else’s viewpoint. But surely you see how that particular viewpoint is not at all helpful? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/62 "2013-01-16T22:39:33Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I think you’d be surprised at just how fast attitudes are changing/have changed. I don’t think that either I or Anaamika would be surprised at how much things are changing … for _some_ people in _some_ situations. That leaves a whole lot of other people behind. Don’t get the impression that I don’t know of anyone who is living a “non-traditional” lifestyle in India, because I do. I know of a married man, estranged from his wife but not divorced, who has a more-or-less permanent partner, an unmarried woman whose own family is fully aware of the situation. I know of a widow, left with sufficient funds to support herself and run her house as a boarding house for girls, who has two more-or-less permanent lovers, both married men, one or the other who might have to wait in the living room if their visits happen to overlap. I know of a manager of an office of 15-20 people who is carrying on a more-or-less permanent relationship with his No. 2. Both are married with children, and both their spouses are aware of the situation. The office folk refer to the No. 2 by a term that translates to “big brother’s wife” (as a youngish supervisor, the boss is customarily addressed as "big brother). I know of an adult gay man who hasn’t married – traditionally a gay man would be forced to marry a woman regardless of his preferences. All these people seem to be getting along more or less alright. So don’t think that this N.R.I. is oblivious of the variety of lives and the pace of change in India. But I don’t make the mistake of thinking that particular personal knowledge of certain situations tells the whole story. That doesn’t mean everything _has changed_ for everyone. Take a trip to Delhi and everyone will warn women not to go around the city alone, to wear loose clothing, not to wear makeup, etc. That doesn’t mean that the majority of women face solid barriers and obstacles when it comes to making personal choices. That doesn’t mean that social pressure and family gossip don’t play an important role in influencing an individual’s life. There are still huge problems in Indian society regarding women’s freedom, that can’t be denied. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/63 "2013-01-16T22:52:33Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > This seems uncalled for. The OP admitted his limited knowledge, reported that his observation doesn’t mesh with the information he grew up with, and you come in and assume he is some kind of boorish, insensitive oaf? > > In fact, to untrained eyes (but I’m sure you’ll train us if you’re in the mood), India seems like a backwards cesspool where the smart leave the country and most of them still can’t figure out the connection between feces and disease, bathing in their “sacred” river where they dump bodies. In fact it does seem like Arabs treat their women better, at least they are not gangraped in public, and India has a lot of centuries of catching up on to match the enlightenment of the Taliban So because someone else pissed in the thread you’re insistent on sinking to the same level? Good job that. > [@Anaamika](#): > > But there are always costs to these sorts of decisions. I don’t tell my family in India I am unmarried. I tell them I am in a relationship with an American man of Chinese descent and let them draw their own conclusions. Even this has a price. I will always be an outsider…I will always be different. Ok, fine, such is the choice I have made, but that’s the key. _I had that choice._ > > When I was at prime marriageable age, I watched my cousins marry into what I call semi-arranged marriages - they had some flexibility, and got to know the man a little, but not completely. Rich and poor, educated and uneducated, all married in essentially the same way, except the poor girls had even less choice. This did not convince me that I wanted to return. > > Living in India and being who I am would inevitably have a cost. My own grandmother told me to my face that I would never be a real woman until I had kids, and I know my family feels the same way. I love my family, despite their flaws and their thinking. It’s better if I live here and they live here - everyone is happier. > > * * * > > The thing I wanted to bring up earlier and was hesitant to was that I have been on the receiving end of eve-teasing. I am particularly light-skinned for being an Indian - most people don’t even recognize me as Indian. Which made me particularly susceptible to being teased. I visited India four times in my life, three times as a teen, and all of those latter times, I was teased. Men sing to you, or they cross the street to block your path, or stuff like that. If you even make eye contact, they try to grab your hand. > > It’s not exactly scary…but it’s the implications that are frightening. I was told I should not stand up for myself, but let my brothers (cousins) do it - not because I couldn’t handle myself, but because standing up for myself would give me a bad reputation, that there was no one there to protect me. I would go to market holding my cousin’s hand. > I remember one Lodi (winter festival) we had the fire burning and I was dancing with the other girls. Some boys came by and we were immediately told to sit down lest we attract attention to ourselves. The married women could continue dancing. > This is all due to a culture where sexuality is repressed, and TBH I don’t know how the culture that wrote the Kam-Sutra can be so repressed nowadays. I sometimes think it’s due to 400 years under the British and their notions of purity, but then it is in our ancient books too - look how Ram treated Sita after she was abucted, on the mere poisoned barbs of his villagers! And she is held up to us as the ideal woman! > > And lastly. My mother had me out of wedlock. This destroyed not only her life in India but my aunt’s life too. Her fiance’s family broke off the engagement because in their words, they didn’t want their son to marry into a whore family. I was brought here, at age four, because my family did not want that stigma to hang over me, too, and here there is no stigma to being a child born out of wedlock. So I deeply and highly resent the implication that I am an NRI because I don’t love my country, am not loyal, whatever. I am here because my country didn’t really want me! Because they don’t want illigitimate daughters. Sons are a different kettle of fish. > > I guess what I am saying is like **Ascenray** - it is so complicated and complex that I don’t even know where to begin. India is actually very modern on women’s issues to a point. But being a mother and a wife is still the highest calling, and there’s no mistake why, in bollywood movies, when a nice girl meets her prospective father in law, he covers her head with a veil and she blushes prettily. It’s all about the place you maintain. The good girl never chases sex, she is always passive and she is the one to tell him to wait until after marriage, never her. But I also believe things are changing. I don’t know. There’s no denying that there are many aspects, such as those you’ve highlighted in your moving post, that need improvement. I just want to say that the improvement is there. Just one, somewhat trivial example - I was looking for a house in Delhi not too long ago. The only flatmate I could find at the time was a female friend. I naturally expected this to be an issue with people. It wasn’t. Nobody batted an eyelid - not the property agents, not the punjabi landlord aunties, not the neighbours. If you read my earlier long post , I try and explain where I think the issue comes from - patriarchal society coming up against modernity. It’ll take a generation or so for attitudes to change. Have old people as a group anywhere ever changed the attitudes they grew up with? I’m hopeful that the change is coming, although as the frictions increase, it may even seem for a bit that some things are getting worse before they get better. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/64 "2013-01-16T22:56:37Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > it was in response to something you blame him for doing - i.e generalising a personal experience. Actually, that’s exactly the opposite of what I was doing. In every case, I have set forth contrasts. In no way have I offered any single example as representing the entire truth about India. Nevertheless, each example offers _a_ truth. In every case, I have said that there are important ways in which women have freedom and opportunities. But each is contrasted by another. The statement of my cousin, who believes that his daughters are better off not growing up in India is just one of those examples. It tells _a_ truth about India. > [@](#): > > What’s worse, it’s generalising the personal experience of someone who has much less current personal experience with what’s relevant. Wrong on both counts. It is not generalizing his experience. It is offering his experience as a single data points. And there is nothing “less current” about that experience. It is as current as everyone else’s. This is not a person who is out of touch with what is happening in India now. > [@](#): > > I’m all for listening to NRIs, and completely agree with you that they do have important contributions to make to the direction that India should take. Whether or not N.R.I.s have any contributions to make is beyond my purview. What I was reacting to was the ad hominem discrediting of the experiences of N.R.I.s based solely on their status as N.R.I.s. And as I have said, all these observations about India are also reflected by Indians who have not left India. > [@](#): > > But statements like “We don’t want to come back to India because it is such a shithole” does them no credit, and is not about to get them taken seriously by people who live in that shithole, don’t you think? To interpret anything I said to mean what you have written here is entirely within your (and TruthSeeker’s) imagination. This is the reflexive defensiveness that I speak of. None among my Indian friends and family whose opinions I respect think of India as a “shithole.” They love India, they love going to India, the spend significant amounts of time in India. The vast majority of their closest family members are in India. They see themselves as part of the Indian community. They have enormous hope for India, and they have enormous enthusiasm for its progress. But they also are smart people who are observant and rational, and they are sensitive to the things about India that are problematic. And the ongoing social limitations of being a woman in India are among those observations. > [@](#): > > There are far more constructive ways to criticise. I have no portfolio to criticize, only to describe, and this one example is not an attempt to criticize but to serve as a data point to try to illustrate a very complicated situation. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/65 "2013-01-16T22:56:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That doesn’t mean everything _has changed_ for everyone. Take a trip to Delhi and everyone will warn women not to go around the city alone, to wear loose clothing, not to wear makeup, etc. That doesn’t mean that the majority of women face solid barriers and obstacles when it comes to making personal choices. That doesn’t mean that social pressure and family gossip don’t play an important role in influencing an individual’s life. > > There are still huge problems in Indian society regarding women’s freedom, that can’t be denied. Have I done so? Admitting a problem exists is the first step towards solving it. I entirely agree that the problem of women not being treated as equals exists. My post was an attempt to explain why the problem exists and occasionally takes on such extreme manifestations. Did you read/agree with the things I said? Did it give you the impression that I was denying that a problem exists? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/66 "2013-01-16T22:58:25Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I’m hopeful that the change is coming, although as the frictions increase, it may even seem for a bit that some things are getting worse before they get better. This is pretty much the point I was trying to make by referring to “growing pains” and backlashes. The very fact that these things are happening might be a sign that things really are changing. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/67 "2013-01-16T23:00:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I have no portfolio to criticize, only to describe, and this one example is not an attempt to criticize but to serve as a data point to try to illustrate a very complicated situation. Look, rather than get bogged down by details, all I was trying to say was that the “We’re not going back to India” statement is not useful, and is liable to raise hackles(not mine, btw), even as a data point. Wouldn’t “India was a restrictive place for women, and from all we know, still seems to be” be just as good as a data point? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/68 "2013-01-16T23:02:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This is pretty much the point I was trying to make by referring to “growing pains” and backlashes. The very fact that these things are happening might be a sign that things really are changing. Oh, I’m in complete agreement with most of the things you’ve said. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/69 "2013-01-17T00:33:11Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > So because someone else pissed in the thread you’re insistent on sinking to the same level? Good job that. That was only to him, and to others I can carry on a non-grunting, cavement conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/70 "2013-01-17T03:51:48Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Non Resident Indian. You know, those of us who have moved away from the mother country and thus betrayed her, or that is what I hear anyway. :halo: You mean, like Gandhi and Nehru? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/71 "2013-01-17T05:04:15Z")
Dear Acsenray, As you know, there are crores of liberal people having daughters in India who can easily settle aboard if they wanted. But they do not feel the need to leave. In my view, if any NRI brought up in India says they do not want to come because they have daughters, he MUST have some different underlying reason which he doesn’t want to address perhaps the laziness about recreating the setup here, lack of enterprise, fear of failure or fear of facing the competition here? And honesty, its the first time I am hearing that excuse and the very opposite that people return to India BECAUSE they have young kids(especially young daughters) is quite common to hear - I am sure you know the reasons for that as well. Regarding Live-in relationships, they are legal as per Indian Constitution, one is 100% entitled to help by police and law if needed . And if one is financially liberated, it is not that difficult to maintain one in present times here in India. That said, I understand Anaamika raises valid issues and its her choice that she doesn’t want to come. Most Justified because she wasn’t brought up in India. and btw, you can pass off as Indian however fair or dark your skin is and Indian movies do have emancipated women characters - plenty of them. : - ) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/72 "2013-01-17T14:41:37Z")
It’s nice to hear that truthseeker. And I say that with no sarcasm. It’s nice to hear my mother country is making strides of progress. As to looking Indian, oh I could certainly pass, if I wore salwar kameez, but in American clothes I don’t look Indian at all. I have Indian people squinting at me curiously all the time. I do have a Punjabi nose, but apparently that’s not enough. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/73 "2013-01-17T15:08:00Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > As you know, there are crores of liberal people having daughters in India who can easily settle aboard if they wanted. But they do not feel the need to leave. In my view, if any NRI brought up in India says they do not want to come because they have daughters, he MUST have some different underlying reason which he doesn’t want to address perhaps the laziness about recreating the setup here, lack of enterprise, fear of failure or fear of facing the competition here? This is not a sound inference. Your line of reasoning is completely fallacious. “Because there are people with daughters who don’t leave India, X must have some reason other than that.” No, sorry, that is wrong. The people who stay in India might have many different reasons for not leaving. Or maybe they simply weigh the factors in a way that leads them to a different conclusion than the conclusion that my cousin has drawn, but it does _not_ mean that my cousin is covering up some laziness, lack of enterprise, or fear. Seriously, this is pathetic. > [@bldysabba](#): > > Look, rather than get bogged down by details, all I was trying to say was that the “We’re not going back to India” statement is not useful, and is liable to raise hackles(not mine, btw), even as a data point. Wouldn’t “India was a restrictive place for women, and from all we know, still seems to be” be just as good as a data point? Actually, there’s no reason why it shouldn’t be useful and why it should raise hackles. The point here is that there are a lot of things about Indian society that may make it disadvantageous to be a woman in India. The example of my cousin is merely that, an example, of a viewpoint about India that is not difficult to find among Indians, whether they have left India or not. The fact that it might “raise hackles” is actually part of the problem, in that in addressing social issues like these, there are a lot of Indians who will grab any straw to try to discredit criticism. Abhijit Mukherjee’s “dented and painted” is one example. The attempts to defame my cousin by TruthSeeker is another example. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/74 "2013-01-18T04:01:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Actually, there’s no reason why it shouldn’t be useful and why it should raise hackles. The point here is that there are a lot of things about Indian society that may make it disadvantageous to be a woman in India. The example of my cousin is merely that, an example, of a viewpoint about India that is not difficult to find among Indians, whether they have left India or not. The fact that it might “raise hackles” is actually part of the problem, in that in addressing social issues like these, there are a lot of Indians who will grab any straw to try to discredit criticism. Abhijit Mukherjee’s “dented and painted” is one example. The attempts to defame my cousin by TruthSeeker is another example. It’s not useful because, for one, most people are not automatons without emotions, and for another, because, like you said, Indian society is not a monolith. There are some women in some situations that can and do make as much of their lives as anybody in a western setup. It is no doubt tougher for them than it is in the west. But the people who remove themselves to another country have avoided that particular struggle. And the statement “we’re not coming back, because we don’t like such and such about India” only serves to broadcast a “We got out, we got successful, but we still want to complain to those who actually face these issues on an ongoing basis” vibe to many people, truthseeker included. NRIs have other struggles of their own, and their lives are not automatically easy because they’re not in India, and they have a very valid viewpoint that needs to be heard, but they _have_ forsaken the difficulties involved in living here. And NRIs do need to be sensitive about this when they give feedback. If for no other reason than they love their country and want their voices heard, not drowned out in nonsense nitpicks. Btw, truthseeker, I do agree with Acsenray. It is not appropriate to decide that people are insincere in what they say. Especially when it is a very believable reason. Are you honestly trying to claim that life in India would be as easy or as free for a woman as it would in the west? That’s patently not true. It is definitely much harder. Women can still have great lives here, but it definitely needs more support from their families, friends, more loss of independence, and more putting up with nonsense that they shouldn’t have to. I’m just trying to say that I’m hopeful this is changing, not that it isn’t there, or isn’t significant. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/75 "2013-01-18T05:09:56Z")
IMO, it can’t be the deciding factor for a person brought up here. In such case, he is camouflaging his insecurities with this excuse. if he is given an easy, good paying and secure job or business, a good house in a decent locality, without making an effort for getting any of these, he WILL come if he wanted to come. I am sure most of us Indians who have sisters and cousins here in India see them pursue career of their choice, dress the way they like, party, drink if they want, have boyfriends, dump one then have another, do whatever they like…n this happens dozens of cities. In my last workplace, lots of people relocated back to India because they wanted to raise kids(specially daughters) in India. so many people that it had almost come a norm. and honestly this is the first time I am hearing someone brought up here say they wont come because they have daughters. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/76 "2013-01-18T05:18:43Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > It’s nice to hear that truthseeker. And I say that with no sarcasm. It’s nice to hear my mother country is making strides of progress. > > As to looking Indian, oh I could certainly pass, if I wore salwar kameez, but in American clothes I don’t look Indian at all. I have Indian people squinting at me curiously all the time. I do have a Punjabi nose, but apparently that’s not enough. 🙂 I believe you if you say so. they could also be staring because they see you as an attractive indian woman in a western outfit.🙂 btw I know nothing about American women clothes but most city girls here do wear jeans and tops(can be sleeveless but covering their belly)… ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/77 "2013-01-18T05:36:40Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > IMO, it can’t be the deciding factor for a person brought up here. In such case, he is camouflaging his insecurities with this excuse. if he is given an easy, good paying and secure job or business, a good house in a decent locality, without making an effort for getting any of these, he WILL come if he wanted to come. > I am sure most of us Indians who have sisters and cousins here in India see them pursue career of their choice, dress the way they like, party, drink if they want, have boyfriends, dump one then have another, do whatever they like..n this happens dozens of cities. > In my last workplace, lots of people relocated back to India because they wanted to raise kids(specially daughters) in India. so many people that it had almost come a norm. and honestly this is the first time I am hearing someone brought up here say they wont come because they have daughters. And he’s trying to tell you your opinion is mistaken. And he is right. Like I said, women can live very fulfilling lives in India, but is there any doubt that it is harder to do so than in the west? None. I have cousins and friends who go out, drink, party and have boyfriends in Delhi. But they have to lie to their parents and definitely their older relatives, they have to make sure their male friends drop them back home when the partying is done, they don’t like being in public places by themselves because they get leched at and have improper advances and comments made at them. To say that someone is lying or misrepresenting their real views when they say they don’t want to move back because they don’t want their daughters to face these issues is more than a little short-sighted. I think because you’re a guy you maybe don’t realise just how much difficulty women have in India, even though there are many positives to their lives as well. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/78 "2013-01-18T06:12:01Z")
A lot (90%+) of these problems can be solved just by avoiding public transport (mainly buses), your own car, autos, taxis, metro trains’ lady compartment etc are absolutely safe. shopping malls, colleges, workplaces etc - safe. And if she doesn’t lie to her family while being in the US, she should not have to lie to the same family here in India. and you talk as if Indian people listen n adhere to what their grandparents of older generation say - they don’t. so, as I said earlier, in my view, this can’t be the \*\*deciding \*\*factor if the real desire (by all parties concerned ) is there n the effort required to relocate is there… ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/79 "2013-01-18T06:35:47Z")
i’ve not been to India, but all your post did is to convince me that India is _not_ safe. i mean if you, as a proponent, needs such a wide, encompassing disclaimer… there’s just no way a parent would choose such an environment for their daughters. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266/80 "2013-01-18T06:47:23Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > so, as I said earlier, in my view, this can’t be the \*\*deciding \*\*factor if the real desire (by all parties concerned ) is there n the effort required to relocate is there… Why on earth not? Why can’t the relative independence and peace of mind of your female children be the deciding factor for someone? It most decidedly can be and it is. And to ignore something like that by saying, “It cannot be” is something we shouldn’t do. It is not the right way to approach the problem. ETA: And of course you’re right, taking your own car, avoiding public transport, having male friends drop you off after partying, are ways by which you can avoid the problem. BUT avoiding a problem involves a mental and economic cost. And it is perfectly valid to not want to come back to India because you have to deal with that [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-are-the-gang-rapes-at-all-representative-of-the-culture-towards-women-there/647266.md?page=5)