# India leads the world in open defecation **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 19, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577 "2016-01-19T15:13:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/61 "2016-01-21T14:14:33Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > You ever heard or (eew) seen the pix some moms will post on Facebook or Mommy boards of their toddlers creative endeavors with the contents of their diapers? Everything from poo smeared “drawings” on crib side walls to kids knee deep in their own waste. > > Also, not all urine is sterile. Not just the tiny bit that sits near the end of the urethra of everyone (which is why you are supposed to pee before having sex) but some people have truly awful urine. There are various bacteria that thrive in urine such as [Klebsiella\_pneumoniae](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klebsiella_pneumoniae). And fungus, protozoans and parasites can also be found in urine. :eek: That is. . . pathological. Seriously, you’re telling me there are some disgusting fools that post pictures of their kids’ shit? WTF? I’ve heard jokes about how new parents will be so obsessed with their child’s every move (no pun intended) but I’ve never actually encountered it IRL. No thank you. I also didn’t know one is supposed to pee before sex. I mean, I do if my bladder is full but I wasn’t aware of the health reasons. This thread has been both enlightening and thoroughly disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/62 "2016-01-21T14:21:49Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > No. The fact that filth causes disease has been well known for millennia, humans are not as stupid as you like to think. Waste disposal was known somewhat at least back to the 7th century BC. The book of Deuteronomy was written around that time and contains this advice in verse 13 of Chapter 23 “As part of your equipment have something to dig with, and when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement.” (NIV). ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/63 "2016-01-21T14:23:18Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > :eek: That is. . . pathological. Seriously, you’re telling me there are some disgusting fools that post pictures of their kids’ shit? WTF? I’ve heard jokes about how new parents will be so obsessed with their child’s every move (no pun intended) but I’ve never actually encountered it IRL. No thank you. Yes. And pictures of their kids’ poo-filled diapers. It’s nasty. Humans have pretty much lost all of their instincts. There is no mothering instinct, or every woman would want to be a mother and would be a good one. And definitely no “stack the poo” instinct. I know that India has had some terrible press lately, and it’s depressing as hell. First there was the horrific rape, then basically the announcement that women aren’t safe at all in India, not foreign women, not white women, nobody. They’re raping everybody over there…I wish I could make a joke of it. Now they are top of the world in poo. Great. But you know, someone mentioned brain drain already, and the problem is huge. If you dedicate your entire economy’s resources to poo management and to food and water\*, you are going to lose even more smart minds to the States. Emigration has increased over 50% in the last fifteen years. They get it. They don’t want to be there either. \*Of course this is important. But I don’t know a country that focuses on this to the detriment of all else. In this country I constantly complain that we are making all these multibillion dollar jets and military things and there are a ton of schools that have little to no money. I think that’s pretty messed-up priorities. ---
**Author:** ![botsgotme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@botsgotme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/botsgotme)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/64 "2016-01-21T14:35:49Z")
When you see pictures of India (on travel agencie’s websites) you get the impression that India is beautiful beyond belief. A friend of mine went to Kashmir-Lake Dal is full of floating feces-ugh! And the River Ganges is an open sewer-how do people bathe in that? Really, one would have to think twice about visiting India…and get a lot of immunizations first. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/65 "2016-01-21T16:18:04Z")
[More than you ever wanted to know about the efforts to end open defecation.](http://www.communityledtotalsanitation.org/) ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/66 "2016-01-21T16:30:56Z")
One reason it’s hard to convince people to use toilets, especially if they’re nasty or hard-to-get-to: [tragedy of the commons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons) This is a phenomenon that manifests in a lot of environmental problems when there’s no/lax enforcement: [ul][li]When you (as an individual) act in a way that is good for the environment (e.g. walking half a mile to use a poorly maintained and rarely cleaned public toilet), you alone bear the cost of your actions, and you only reap a tiny share of the benefits of your actions. [/li] [\*]When you act in a way that is bad for the environment (e.g. open defecation), you reap all the benefits (convenience, fresh air and sunshine) and you only bear a tiny portion of the cost of your actions ( a slight degredation of the urban environment).[/ul]Most people tend to act in their own best interest, so in the absence of any legal or social proscriptions against open defecation, it shouldn’t be too surprising that the practice persists. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/67 "2016-01-21T17:21:33Z")
India has moved 250-275 million people forward – about the size of the U.S. – but that leaves 3/4 of a Billion people behind. It’s the sheer scale of the problem in people numbers. They moved a U.S.-sized population forward. They just need to do that three more times. Ain’t easy! ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/68 "2016-01-21T18:12:09Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > My only point, and I will leave it after this because I really don’t have that strong of an interest, is that if you have millions to spend to send up a space probe that really does nothing other than give you bragging rights, wouldn’t it be better to use those millions to build a sewer system in a city that could actually benefit many of your people? If the probe could be poo-powered, it could do both at the same time. Pay people a rupee or two to do their civic doody in specified locations, fuel the rocket… That said: yeah. Build latrines in specified locations. Cite scofflaws (can’t fine them, as I presume anyone squatting in public couldn’t pay a fine anyway). It might take a while but it would ultimately make a difference… ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/69 "2016-01-21T19:33:26Z")
I do wonder if people confuse lack of clean sanitation facilities with open defecation. The former do have access to toliets, the later don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/70 "2016-01-21T19:57:06Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > That must be among the most surprising facts I’ve learned here. I mean, the privacy part I can totally see as a learned behavior, but I am truly amazed that we, as humans, don’t sort of view waste as , I don’t know, “dangerous” or something. I think it was here that I learned that urine is not harmful, but aren’t a great number of diseases caused by feces infected water / food? Surely even folks with no knowledge of Western medicine should have connected the dots? Eep. Ignorance fought indeed. > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > We do; that’s why it smells bad. Nobody wants to step in it or smell it or live next to it. But it takes a degree of intellect/strategizing/planning/foresight to say “hey, you know, we should put all of our shit in one carefully managed pile over there, instead of scattering it all around town in the open.” ^ This. The “ew, this smells bad” is sufficient to make people NOT shit in their beds given a choice, but that’s about it. And for a sparsely populated landscape where folks will be moving on in a few days or weeks at most everyone picking a spot just outside the ring of tents/wickiups/whatever and pooping there is sufficient (usually). If we have any toilet instinct at all (which is debatable) that would be the extent of it. Problem is, most of humanity doesn’t live like that anymore. We live in permanent, dense settlements where pooping outside your property means pooping on someone else’s property, and if everyone did that as soon as it rains the local river will be contaminated. Keep in mind, there are still places in the world where animal dung is dried and used as fuel to cook and heat homes. Cowshit, horseshit, and presumably other forms of shit used for that don’t smell good, either, yet people overcome their distaste to use it as their primary fuel source. > [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > :eek: That is. . . pathological. Seriously, you’re telling me there are some disgusting fools that post pictures of their kids’ shit? WTF? I’ve heard jokes about how new parents will be so obsessed with their child’s every move (no pun intended) but I’ve never actually encountered it IRL. No thank you. Yes, infant and toddler humans can regard their own shit much like clay or Play-Doh, or fingerpaints. They’re sort of notorious for exploring diaper contents, actually, I heard about such things long before the internet was a common feature of our lives. Haven’t had to deal with it personally, but I’ve baby-sat enough infants, toddlers, and young children to be prepared to deal with such a thing. You clean them up, clean up their mess, and wash your own hands thoroughly. Kids :rolleyes: > [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Waste disposal was known somewhat at least back to the 7th century BC. The book of Deuteronomy was written around that time and contains this advice in verse 13 of Chapter 23 “As part of your equipment have something to dig with, and when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement.” (NIV). Again, sufficient for a group of nomadic or semi-nomadic people living in camps that periodically move to new locations, completely insufficient for a settled town because it won’t be too long before every time you dig a hole you’re uncovering someone else’s prior shit deposit. Not to mention problems with drainage, local water tables, water sources, and so forth. Might not be a coincidence that that passage comes after the time the Jews were in Egypt - sanitation issues have long been of concern there due to the annual flooding of the Nile and the way the human habitations all hug the river. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/71 "2016-01-21T20:47:23Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > When you see pictures of India (on travel agencie’s websites) you get the impression that India is beautiful beyond belief. A friend of mine went to Kashmir-Lake Dal is full of floating feces-ugh! And the River Ganges is an open sewer-how do people bathe in that? Really, one would have to think twice about visiting India…and get a lot of immunizations first. Out of curiosity, what would be the “best” / most progressive areas to visit in India? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/72 "2016-01-21T21:29:28Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Out of curiosity, what would be the “best” / most progressive areas to visit in India? A good question. Several friends of mine travel to India a couple times a year on business. They did not report seeing images such as what was in the OP video. I think they have been to Bangalore, and a few other areas for tourists. Another friend lives in Mumbai, and has reported the smell, as well as trash, rats, etc., but not open defecation there. While I know poverty is widespread, I cannot imagine the entire country is awash in crap. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/73 "2016-01-21T21:59:14Z")
I think people underestimate how rigid people are with toileting habits. Take those composting toilets. Imagine how you would feel if the government urged people to use those instead of wasteful flushing toilets. Would you do it? Even if they offered a subsidy of some type, I know I’d be reluctant to jump on the bandwagon. You mean my poop doesn’t just “disappear” anymore? I actually have to look at it, along with and everyone else’s?! And then do stuff to it later, or else it will stink?! Because I’m sheeple, I’d get one if it became mandatory. But I wouldn’t want to. It would infringe on somethng very personal and private. Really, I think the only way to break people out of old ways is to either punish enough of them or reward enough of them. Setting up the toliet isn’t enough. Scaring people about diseases isn’t enough. Our potty habits are so deeply engrained that you have to appeal to the reptilian part of the brain, not the cerebral part. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/74 "2016-01-21T22:51:45Z")
Nn ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/75 "2016-01-21T23:08:32Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Out of curiosity, what would be the “best” / most progressive areas to visit in India? What are you looking for? India is an incredible and diverse place to visit, but it’s very much a middle income country with a significant population in extreme poverty. The cities have areas of poverty and areas of luxury. The rural areas are generally pretty poor. If you want to feel like you are in Toronto or San Diego or something, it’s possible to restrict yourself to gated communities, shopping malls, resorts, and other upper-middle-class enclaves where you won’t come face to face with poverty. Plenty of Indians live like that. But it doesn’t seem of much interest to tourists. There are laid-back smaller cities with some tourist interest where you won’t see as much squalor as you do in major cities. But if your main goal is to avoid seeing poverty, I’m not sure India is the best place to go. It’s a beautiful country, but it is poor. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/76 "2016-01-22T00:11:10Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > What are you looking for? India is an incredible and diverse place to visit, but it’s very much a middle income country with a significant population in extreme poverty. The cities have areas of poverty and areas of luxury. The rural areas are generally pretty poor. > > If you want to feel like you are in Toronto or San Diego or something, it’s possible to restrict yourself to gated communities, shopping malls, resorts, and other upper-middle-class enclaves where you won’t come face to face with poverty. Plenty of Indians live like that. But it doesn’t seem of much interest to tourists. > > There are laid-back smaller cities with some tourist interest where you won’t see as much squalor as you do in major cities. > > But if your main goal is to avoid seeing poverty, I’m not sure India is the best place to go. It’s a beautiful country, but it is poor. Do you know some specific locations in India that are upper or middle class enclaves, or just have a progressive atmosphere? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/77 "2016-01-22T00:48:58Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Do you know some specific locations in India that are upper or middle class enclaves, or just have a progressive atmosphere? Any info I have is way outdated. Here is a list I found of various villages with cool stuff going on, but I can’t vouch for how accurate it is. > **[10 Indian Villages That Set A Worthy Example For The Whole Country - ScoopWhoop](https://www.scoopwhoop.com/inothernews/mera-gaon-mahaan/)** > > India, having an agro-based economy, depends the most on its villages for growth. The gaon always has that distinct nostalgic charm that Indians alone can understand. Sarson ke khet , tea plantations, mud houses, clean \[...\] ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/78 "2016-01-22T00:49:10Z")
I’ve never visited India and now I know I never will. Some years ago during the dark ages of the GW Bush regime I had a temporary job writing part of a process manual for a waste water treatment facility that we referred to as a shit factory. I was astonished at the complexity of a waste treatment facility—the one I worked in offered public tours and I really believe they should be mandatory. Before I worked there I simply flushed a toilet and thought no more about it. Believe me, it is very complex operation and I came away from that experience with a new regard for sewer workers. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/79 "2016-01-23T07:47:12Z")
I’m sure this is an oversimplified approach, but in areas that do have available toilets, couldn’t the law impose a penalty or monetary fine on people who are found to still relieve themselves in the open anyway? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577/80 "2016-01-23T13:48:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’m sure this is an oversimplified approach, but in areas that do have available toilets, couldn’t the law impose a penalty or monetary fine on people who are found to still relieve themselves in the open anyway? To what avail? People doing this have no money, and there are not enuf jail cells to fill with them. Until public perception changes and infrastructure improves, I don’t see a lot changing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/india-leads-the-world-in-open-defecation/743577.md?page=5)