# Indian elections and Narendra Modi **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 14, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067 "2014-04-14T03:31:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/101 "2014-05-24T02:43:05Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Maybe he is, on philosophy(which he has his degree in), religion(in which he professes to do research) and ecology(which is what his current research is apparently about). He clearly doesn’t know shit about contemporary Indian history or politics, as evidenced by zilch on the bio, and his glaringly erroneous views in the interview you linked to. > > ETA: I’m really confused. What about the bio makes you think he’s someone whose views you should give credence to on the topic about which he’s speaking? The bio makes it sound like he’s spent a long time studying India in general. Which makes him as qualified as anyone in the BJP (or the Congress) to comment on its politics, and probably more so than M.J. Akbar, whom you call “an actual expert” for no reason I can see and certainly no academic reason. If you want a **better** expert, that would probably be a political scientist. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/102 "2014-05-24T02:50:50Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Wait, you have to have a degree in the B.J.P. to have valid, informed information and views about the B.J.P.? Why don’t you tell me if Thomas Crowley’s bio reads like that of an expert? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/103 "2014-05-24T03:02:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The bio makes it sound like he’s spent a long time studying India in general. Which makes him as qualified as anyone in the BJP (or the Congress) to comment on its politics, and probably more so than M.J. Akbar, whom you call “an actual expert” for no reason I can see and certainly no academic reason. If you want a **better** expert, that would probably be a political scientist. This is laughable. Thomas Crowley is a philosophy graduate(i.e he hasn’t studied India/ modern Indian history at his university) who has lived in India for a few years doing research that, per the bio, is not related to the political landscape or history or any subject that could be related to the topic at hand. His most recent research project was about a slightly oversized park in New Delhi. He’s basically an American living in India with an opinion. Which would be fine if he weren’t presented as an ‘expert’. And it’s not just his bio that I’m basing my criticism on. Had he known what he was talking about, he wouldn’t have made the egregious statements on tax reform and riots that I pointed out earlier. M J Akbar on the other hand has spent a lifetime reporting on politics in India and is intimately acquainted with the political and institutional background of the country. He was a critic of Modi who has looked at and understood the evidence and changed his mind. If for you both of these commentators are equivalent in their knowledge on this topic, I want to know how many bridges you own. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/104 "2014-05-24T03:21:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The bio makes it sound like he’s spent a long time studying India in general. Which makes him as qualified as anyone in the BJP (or the Congress) to comment on its politics, and probably more so than M.J. Akbar, whom you call “an actual expert” for no reason I can see and certainly no academic reason. Here’s his bio > **[M. J. Akbar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._J._Akbar)** > > Mobasher Jawed Akbar (born 11 January 1951) is an Indian journalist and politician, who served as the Minister of State (MoS) for External Affairs until 17 October 2018. Akbar is a Member of Parliament in the Rajya Sabha, and was inducted into the Union Council of Ministers by PM Narendra Modi on 5 July 2016. He is also a veteran Indian journalist and author of several books. He was a Member of Parliament between 1989 and 1991, and returned to public life in March 2014 when he joined the B > [@](#): > > Akbar joined The Times of India in 1971 as a trainee. Within a few months moved to the The Illustrated Weekly of India, then India’s largest selling magazine, as sub-editor and feature writer, and contributed a prolific number of stories. In the weekly till 1973, when he was named editor of the news fortnightly, Onlooker, owned by The Free Press Journal Group in Mumbai. In 1976, he moved to Calcutta to join the Ananda Bazar Patrika Group as editor of SUNDAY, a political weekly.[3] Within just three years of its launch, the investigative reporting pioneered by the magazine established its national circulation and number one position. The magazine took an uncompromising stand against the Emergency and fought press censorship and dictatorship. SUNDAY not only established major trends in journalism but also spawned a new generation of journalists in the country. > > In 1982, after the success of The Sunday, Akbar launched what is considered by some to be India’s first modern newspaper. He conceived, designed and edited the daily newspaper, The Telegraph, which had a major impact on newspaper journalism in India. > > In 1989, he took a brief detour into politics with his election to the Indian Parliament in November 1989 from Kishanganj in Bihar on a Congress(I) ticket. He lost the seat in the 1991 Lok Sabha elections.[4][5] He served as late prime minister Rajiv Gandhi’s official spokesman.[6] > > In 1991, Akbar joined the Government as an advisor in the Ministry of Human Resources, and helped policy planning in key areas of education, the National Literacy Mission and in the protection of heritage. He resigning from the post and quit politics in December 1992 and returned to journalism and full-time writing. In 1993, Akbar started a new media company with the aim of creating India’s first newspaper that would not only include an international focus within its editorial range, but also be the first Indian daily with an international edition. This newspaper appeared in February 1994. The Asian Age, India’s first global newspaper, was launched with initial editions in Delhi, Bombay, and London, and by 2008 had grown, in collaboration with the Deccan Chronicle, to eight editions, into a major media presence nationally and internationally. In 2004, the group began publishing The International Herald Tribune in India, and became a publishing partner of The New York Times.[7] > > In 2005, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, appointed him as a member of the committee to draft a ten year charter for Muslim nations on behalf of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation.[8] > > In March 2006, Akbar Joined The Brookings Institution, Washington, as a Visiting Fellow in the Brookings Project on U.S. Policy Towards the Islamic World. During the late 90s, he diluted his stake in the Asian Age, eventually selling of a major part of it to the Reddys, the owners of the Deccan Chronicle group. > > In March 2008, Akbar was removed from The Asian Age and Deccan Chronicle due to differences with the owners over editorial policy, as some newspapers have reported it. > > Akbar Launched a Fortnightly Political Magazine named ‘Covert’ on 13 May 2008 in Delhi with the first issue on stands on 14 May. Simultaneously, the Covert website[9] was launched two days later. Later this website got discontinued. > > Akbar launched a new Sunday newspaper from 31 January 2010.“The Sunday Guardian” is published from Delhi and simultaneously from London with Akbar as the Editor of the Weekly Newspaper.[10] > > In September 2010, he joined the Living Media as Editorial Director of the leading weekly English news magazine India Today and the English news channel Headlines Today. > > Politics[edit] > Akbar, who was a Congress MP from Kishanganj in Bihar between 1989 and 1991,he was Congress party spokesperson in 1989. M J Akbar joined Bharatiya Janata Party in March 2014. He was appointed as national spokesperson of the party[11][12] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/105 "2014-05-24T03:30:30Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > M J Akbar on the other hand has spent a lifetime reporting on politics in India and is intimately acquainted with the political and institutional background of the country. He was a critic of Modi who has looked at and understood the evidence and changed his mind. If for you both of these commentators are equivalent in their knowledge on this topic, I want to know how many bridges you own. Can’t you understand that the sole basis of Akbar’s “expertise” is also the reason why we must take anything he says with a salt mine or two? Again, his views on the BJP are “informed” like Boehner’s or Cruz’ views on the GOP are “informed,” i.e., to be considered but not trusted. He has a political agenda and it is the BJP’s agenda. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/106 "2014-05-24T03:35:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yeah, well, according to [this piece in _The Nation_](https://boards.straightdope.com/article/179925/narenda-modis-transformation-international-outcast-indias-prime-minister): You can keep pointing me to biased opinion pieces all day long. I already know they’re out there, and in part it’s what prompted this thread. Come back when you can present some evidence, or if you come across an article that presents some evidence. Or when you’re willing to look at my evidence and argue its merits. Or when you’re willing to provide any constructive input really. > [@](#): > > Look, I understand your poor country has been going to Naraka since the Brits cut you loose, but this is no way to deal with it! Trust me, we’ve tried a combination of business-friendly economic neoliberalism and cultural reaction/bigotry **here!** It never does any good! I find this comment to be in remarkably poor taste. I’d recommend that you do not try and tell Indians that our independence from the British was the point where things started going badly for us, and if you must do so, try not to be so patronising about it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/107 "2014-05-24T03:36:42Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I find this comment to be in remarkably poor taste. I’d recommend that you do not try and tell Indians that our independence from the British was the point where things started going badly for us . . . No, no, not “started.” Any country (including mine) where religion dominates politics is going to be in a bad way until it gets past that, and your country’s politics have been dominated by religion for at least three thousand years now. You need to get past it, and Modri and the BJP ain’t gonna help none. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/108 "2014-05-24T03:43:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Can’t you understand that the sole basis of Akbar’s “expertise” is also the reason why we must take anything he says with a salt mine or two? Again, his views on the BJP are “informed” like Boehner’s or Cruz’ views on the GOP are “informed,” i.e., to be considered but not trusted. He has a political agenda and it is the BJP’s agenda. He became the BJP’s spokesman in March 2014. Before that he’s been a career journalist who trades on his integrity, which no one has ever accused him of lacking. He has in the past been an outspoken critic of both the BJP and Modi. He’s looked at the evidence, and decided it allows him to reconsider his stance, and join them. You can take this with as many salt mines as you wish. I present it as evidence that people who actually know what they’re talking about consider that Modi is correct in his protestation of innocence on the 2002 riots and desire for Hindu-Muslim unity in India. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/109 "2014-05-24T03:44:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, no, not “started.” What does > [@](#): > > Look, I understand your poor country has been going to Naraka since the Brits cut you loose mean then? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/110 "2014-05-24T03:53:40Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > What does > > mean then? It means you were going to Naraka even **before** the Brits arrived, and all because your religion dominated your politics. The Brits, for all their faults, at least were not Hindu zealots. Nor (mostly) Christian zealots either, because that would have been in Bad Taste. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/111 "2014-05-24T04:03:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It means you were going to Naraka even **before** the Brits arrived, and all because your religion dominated your politics. The Brits, for all their faults, at least were not Hindu zealots. Nor (mostly) Christian zealots either, because that would have been in Bad Taste. Ah, so you _did_ mean what you wrote. Thanks, we’re done here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/112 "2014-05-24T04:04:43Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Ah, so you _did_ mean what you wrote. Thanks, we’re done here. No, we’re not, and you’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/113 "2014-05-24T05:17:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, no, not “started.” Any country (including mine) where religion dominates politics is going to be in a bad way until it gets past that, and your country’s politics have been dominated by religion for at least three thousand years now. You need to get past it, and Modri and the BJP ain’t gonna help none. Cite? I am not sure by what measure you think Indian/subcontinental politics have been 'dominated by religion ’ for ‘three thousand years’. At least, to a greater extent than Europe. It seems to me that subcontinental politics have mostly been driven by a combination of class, caste, economic, power politics, and religious issues , same as anywhere else. It’s possible that India has traditionally been a more religious place than China, say, but I don’t think it was, until maybe a hundred and fifty years ago , much more religiously driven than Europe. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/114 "2014-05-24T14:21:44Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Cite? > > I am not sure by what measure you think Indian/subcontinental politics have been 'dominated by religion ’ for ‘three thousand years’. At least, to a greater extent than Europe. It seems to me that subcontinental politics have mostly been driven by a combination of class, caste, economic, power politics, and religious issues , same as anywhere else. Caste **is** religious in India. And religious **differences** have been dominating the country’s politics at least since the Muslims arrived, probably longer. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/115 "2014-05-24T14:54:41Z")
Caste is related to religion in the same way that a lot of social artifacts in India are, but caste in politics has nothing to do with religion. It plays out more like race-based or ethnicity-based politics. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/116 "2014-05-24T15:39:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Caste is related to religion in the same way that a lot of social artifacts in India are, but caste in politics has nothing to do with religion. It plays out more like race-based or ethnicity-based politics. I’m thinking it plays out more like American religious-right notions about the proper place of women. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/117 "2014-05-24T16:07:19Z")
Yeah, well, you’re wrong about that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/118 "2014-05-24T16:11:48Z")
To be more specific, caste politics is about directing resources to whatever group manages to gain power. It has nothing to do with imposing religious beliefs on society. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/119 "2014-05-24T17:18:26Z")
**BrainGlutton** Caste is essentially a racial/ethnic signifier with economic overtones . Read Razib Khan on caste and genetics, he’s pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067/120 "2014-05-24T17:33:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m thinking it plays out more like American religious-right notions about the proper place of women. Just…no. I don’t know whether this statement shows a deeper lack of understanding of conservative Christian understanding of gender roles , or of contemporary caste issues, but it’s just very deeply wrong. If you think of caste as a sort of hybrid of race and premodern economic classes, probably more weighted toward the former, you’ll be much more correct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indian-elections-and-narendra-modi/686067.md?page=7)