# Indiana Baptist pastor says "Islam is our enemy" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399 "2003-09-08T22:24:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/21 "2003-09-09T04:04:30Z")
What **EddyTeddyFreddy** said. Sorry, I should have been more specific. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/22 "2003-09-09T04:11:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*Okay, the guy’s an asshole and an idiot, but really: is a baptist minister in some jerkwater town preaching hate and misinformation about Islam really “news”? \*\* Now, now **Miller** , Avon is a suburb of Indianapolis (on the west side). I’m ashamed to admit it now, but I grew up there. Great, the first time my hometown gets mentioned on the SDMB and it’s because of this idiot. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/23 "2003-09-09T07:21:20Z")
Sorry to slag your hometown, **MaddyStrut**. I’m sure it’s mostly lovely. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/24 "2003-09-09T10:38:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*It’s not Christ I have a problem with, it’s _Christians_. > > _sigh_ \*\* John Lennon said it better “Jesus was all right, but his disciples are thick and ordinary.” I actually work variations of that into conversations. Usually if someone is bitching about someone else, I’ll then add “but Jesus is all right”. Those who recognize the reference always crack up. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/25 "2003-09-09T12:14:40Z")
> [@](#): > > shellfish _snicker_ Anyway, to a certain degree he’s right. There is a very strong Wahhabist undercurrent throughout an awful lot of Muslm states and nations with a muslim minority today. We can be thankful they aren’t really a majority, but the problem is, they are tolerable to the majority. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/26 "2003-09-09T14:35:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Basically you have to have faith in God (who is the same God as in Christianity and Judaism), > > You also have to remember that there is no original sin in Islam, nothing to atone for or be saved from. In Islam you are saved by your own works, not by somebody else. \*\* If there is no original sin in Islam, and saved by works, then this is NOT the same God as in Chrsitianity. thank you. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/27 "2003-09-09T14:49:32Z")
yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/28 "2003-09-09T14:51:58Z")
obviously not. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/29 "2003-09-09T14:56:54Z")
so God her/himself declared that salvation is only by faith alone? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/30 "2003-09-09T15:05:22Z")
So God said there is no original sin? Why did Jesus die then? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/31 "2003-09-09T15:09:10Z")
when exactly was this concept of original sin created? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/32 "2003-09-09T15:12:17Z")
And I’ve met more than one person who believes that the God that Catholics and moderate Protestants pray to isn’t the same one that the Fundists pray too. And your point being?? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/33 "2003-09-09T15:15:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*when exactly was this concept of original sin created? \*\* Well it wasn’t created, so much as ripped off from another idea. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/34 "2003-09-09T15:43:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > So God said there is no original sin? > Why did Jesus die then? > :rolleyes: Because he forgot the safety word? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/35 "2003-09-09T16:44:34Z")
It always amuses me to hear/read people trying to define God, as if God could possibly be understood by any consciousness so much more limited than his/hers/its, or be jammed and crammed into the narrow confines of any human construct. We will _always_ see as if through a glass, darkly, when it comes to knowing what the Divine thinks. To claim to know God’s mind, to me, is hubris of the rankest sort. In other words, consider the parable of the blind men and the elephant. At least I don’t recall any of the blind men setting out to exterminate anyone who didn’t accept his description. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/36 "2003-09-09T17:04:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lno \* > Because he forgot the safety word? I think I love you. And no, you don’t owe me for a new keyboard, but only because I’ve already finished my morning soda. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/37 "2003-09-09T17:29:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*when exactly was this concept of original sin created? \*\* It was created by Augustine in about 480 or so. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/38 "2003-09-09T17:40:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lno \* > \*\*Because he forgot the safety word? \*\* I think I love you, too. But me, you owe a new monitor. Diet pepsi all over this one! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/39 "2003-09-09T17:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > It was created by Augustine in about 480 or so. Augustine elucidated it and expanded it more, but the concept of a stained existence and now-imperfect existence comes straight out of Genesis. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399/40 "2003-09-09T19:47:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I wasn’t referring to the Bible but rather to Christ and his teachings about loving your neighbor, forgiveness, and all that stuff that self-righteous bigots seem to think applies only to them and their kind, and not to anyone they don’t happen to approve of. And yup, there’s plenty of stuff in the Bible (especially the Old Testament) that haters can haul out and brandish at their targets. > > For the record, I’m an agnostic (raised Congregationalist) who sometimes flipflops toward atheism or Deism. But I’ve given up on organized religion. I just hope that if any specific faith DOES happen to be the One True Way, it accepts good works as the passport to Heaven. Alright, sure. Very well-rounded post, by the way. Nice and punchy. As for the point… Okay, the teachings of Christ alone generally sound good to me. Emphasis on generally. If memory serves, though, didn’t Christ agree with the OT? Can anyone give me a cite that points in that direction? Additionally: It infuriates me (in extreme cases, a good deal of it just makes me piffle) when sects of Christianity (and this applies to many of them!) include hateful material that they agree with, and don’t include what they don’t agree with. If the Bible is infalliable, why are you changing it? If the Bible is falliable, then… What’s the point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-baptist-pastor-says-islam-is-our-enemy/200399.md?page=3)