# Indiana Jones what-if **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 31, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180 "2005-05-31T04:03:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/41 "2005-06-01T21:02:34Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > Then the Ark would still be lost, and not in a giant warehouse. I find it interesting that the Nazis thought it necessary to _open_ the Ark at all; while the image shown early on in the film showing the Ark smiting its foes with lightning/fire/the wrath of God _suggests_ this may be the proper use, there’s also the implication that merely _possessing_ the Ark makes one’s army invincible – hence Hitler’s desire to capture it. The fact that we get to see the Ark wheeled into some giant government warehouse at the end implied to me that Indy’s securing the Ark for America was what allowed the Allies to triumph over the Nazis in WWII. > [@Winston Bongo](#): > > I think the fact that Indy didn’t “save the day” actually worked in this case – whereas in most other action movies it wouldn’t – because Indy’s failure was entirely consistent with his character. Remember, near the end of the film, he could have fired that missile launcher and foiled Hitler’s plans by destroying the ark. Mission accomplished, Indy’s the hero, the end. But Indy, being more complex than your traditional action hero, can’t bring himself to destroy a priceless historical treasure like the ark… That’s because it _belongs_ in a museum! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/42 "2005-06-01T21:16:42Z")
Well, for some of the alleged plot holes raised thus far: Marianne Ravenwood was in Nepal after following her father there (and being orphaned when he died). I get the impression she kept the amulet as a memento and neither she nor Abner had any real idea of its significance, nor was Abner in Nepal to research it. It might’ve been nice if they _hadn’t_ performed the opening ceremony on the secret Nazi island base (patent pending) and the Ark had been opened in the presence of Der Fuhrer himself. Melt, you fascist bastard! And while it’s pretty silly to believe Indy rode the top of a German U-Boat all the way to the island, it’s unclear how the U-Boat caught up with the freighter in the first place, since submerged U-Boats were quite slow, far slower than any reasonably well-maintained powered surface vessel (especially since the relatively zippy U-boat models weren’t commissioned until the war started, some three years after the events in the movie). There’d have to be a pretty impressive chain of events involved: [ul][li]German agents in Cairo figure out where Indy et. al disappeared to after the truck chase[/li][li]They discover which boat he took and find it using aerial reconnaissance and, conveniently, the freighter is a course near on of our secret Nazi island bases[/li][li]Belok, Toht and Dietrich fly to the base, board the submarine kept there and intercept the freighter[/ul][/li]So the Germans had a secret island base in the Mediterranian? I suppose if the freighter was headed west from Cairo toward Gibralter (or even, ambitiously and expensively, all the way to Britain or the U.S.) and passed near Italian territorial waters… anyway, the whole thing’s a goofy fantasy and enjoyable for what it was. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/43 "2005-06-01T21:19:07Z")
> [@psiekier](#): > > The fact that we get to see the Ark wheeled into some giant government warehouse at the end implied to me that Indy’s securing the Ark for America was what allowed the Allies to triumph over the Nazis in WWII. I just wanted to say that in more than twenty years, that has _never_ occurred to me. I don’t know if I agree, but I never even considered the possibility. ---
**Author:** ![BigDummy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BigDummy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigDummy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/44 "2005-06-01T21:32:01Z")
> [@psiekier](#): > > I find it interesting that the Nazis thought it necessary to _open_ the Ark at all; while the image shown early on in the film showing the Ark smiting its foes with lightning/fire/the wrath of God _suggests_ this may be the proper use, there’s also the implication that merely _possessing_ the Ark makes one’s army invincible – hence Hitler’s desire to capture it. I thought that was really more Belloq’s idea. The Nazi guys didn’t seem to want any part of it, Belloq talked them into it. Not his best idea. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/45 "2005-06-01T21:32:08Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Indy doesn’t get ANYTHING! > > He didn’t get the Ark. > He didn’t the stones. > He didn’t get the Grail. > > He did get the Cross of Cortez, after about 40 years. He lost the idol, too. And he gave up the diary to the Nazis. Never mind that he got it back; his dad should have mailed it to the Marx Brothers. He did get the antidote…but he lost the diamonds in the process. Suddenly, I don’t feel quite so bad about my lack of accomplishment. Me and Indy…and Philip Marlowe. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/46 "2005-06-01T21:39:23Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, for some of the alleged plot holes raised thus far: This reminds me of an alledged statement that Harrison Ford made to Mark Hamill when he complained, in the scene in _Star Wars_ chronologically following the one where they’re stuck in the trash compactor, that nobody was wet (as they should have been after swimming through the trash juice). “Kid, it ain’t that kind of movie.” 🙂 Stranger (And what the heck did they need a trash compactor in a space station when they could just void it all out into space. And where the heck did the vermin come from? Did they stick it in there just to keep off-duty stormtroopers from dumpster diving?) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/47 "2005-06-01T21:40:41Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > I don’t know if I agree, but I never even considered the possibility. Neither did I, and, now that I have, I have to say, I disagree. The final scenes always struck me as entirely less…optimistic. The Ark was being lost. No historian, religious scholar, or anything of the like would see it again - at least not until some random clerk looks at it and melts in 50, 60 years time. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/48 "2005-06-01T22:11:27Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Indy doesn’t get ANYTHING! > > He didn’t get the Ark. > He didn’t the stones. > He didn’t get the Grail. > > He did get the Cross of Cortez, after about 40 years. Cross of Coronado. Actually, he did get the Ark. He gave it/sold it to the US governmnet, who put in a warehouse with the Roswell UFO. And he got one of the stones back, before he returned it to the rightful owners. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/49 "2005-06-01T22:18:13Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > The Ark was being lost. No historian, religious scholar, or anything of the like would see it again - at least not until some random clerk looks at it and melts in 50, 60 years time. Leading to a mediocre episode of some _X-Files_ clone. Personally, I suspect they sold it off to Charles Fos…I mean William Randolph Hearst to help pay for the war effort, and it was stored for years in a giant wearhouse along with his other possessions, then was tossed in the stove as an obvious, cheaply made knock-off, along with a bunch of Rodin fakes and a crappy old Red Rider sled. “We’ve got top men working on it…TOP…MEN.” Besides, what would we have done with it? Alternatively, the Pope used his influence to have it suppressed lest it undermine his authority as the ultimate arbitor of Gaw’s Will with the masses. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/50 "2005-06-01T22:29:35Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Without the ritual, it probably wouldn’t have done anything. [“What does it do?” “That’s the beauty of it. It doesn’t \*do \* anything.”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=317339) Just cross-threading… ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/51 "2005-06-01T22:32:11Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > [“What does it do?” > “That’s the beauty of it. It doesn’t \*do \* anything.”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=317339) > > Just cross-threading… Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/52 "2005-06-01T22:43:27Z")
> [@psiekier](#): > > I find it interesting that the Nazis thought it necessary to _open_ the Ark at all; while the image shown early on in the film showing the Ark smiting its foes with lightning/fire/the wrath of God _suggests_ this may be the proper use, there’s also the implication that merely _possessing_ the Ark makes one’s army invincible – hence Hitler’s desire to capture it. I think you’re confusing the Ark with the Spear of Destiny. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/53 "2005-06-01T23:10:33Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I was tryng to recall just how Goldfinger’s plot unravelled, and I do believe that it was only because of the turning of Pussy Galore. So Bond’s libido saved the day. IIRC – in the movie at least --, 007’s seduction of Pussy Galore leads her to switch the canisters of nerve gas (under the wings of her Flying Circus planes) for a dummy gas, hence allowing the Fort Knox troops to “play dead” rather than “be dead”. The troops are then able to re-take the bullion depository from Goldfinger’s goons, so the bomb-defusing guy can step in and stop the countdown at the last moment (which 007 has failed to do). ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/54 "2005-06-01T23:26:07Z")
That’s how I remember it too, Antonius. So the only useful thing James does is to rape PG (and if you think the description of the event is harsh, watch it again) – the powers of his Magic Dingus not only convert her from her lesbian ways, but also swing her over to fighting for the forces of Good. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/55 "2005-06-02T05:40:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think you’re confusing the Ark with the Spear of Destiny. In _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ it is actually stated (by Marcus Brody, if memory serves), that an army that carries the Ark with it is invincible. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/56 "2005-06-02T13:41:04Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > In _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ it is actually stated (by Marcus Brody, if memory serves), that an army that carries the Ark with it is invincible. Yeah, but he got lost in his own museum. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/57 "2005-06-07T13:22:25Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > In _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ it is actually stated (by Marcus Brody, if memory serves), that an army that carries the Ark with it is invincible. It is indeed Marcus Brody. > [@](#): > > **Army Intelligence Guy:** What’s that supposed to be coming out of there? > **Indy:** Lightning… fire… the power of God or something. > **Other Army Guy:** I’m beginning to understand Hitler’s interest in this. > **Brody:** Oh yes… the Bible speaks of the Ark leveling mountains and laying waste to entire regions. An army which carries the Ark before it is invincible. I never get to watch it, but I do have the four disk DVD set. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/58 "2005-06-07T14:19:36Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > How the heck did he hang on a submarine periscope all the way to Secret Submarine Base Island? > > That has always bothered me. Yes, me too and nobody so far has come up with a plausible explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/59 "2005-06-07T14:45:26Z")
> [@Stryfe](#): > > Yes, me too and nobody so far has come up with a plausible explanation. Indy is a God amongst men. Either that, or the Germans never submerged. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180/60 "2005-06-07T14:50:03Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Indy is a God amongst men. Either that, or the Germans never submerged. I watched _Raiders_ last week, because of this thread. When Indy’s hanging onto the sub, just after all the pirates spot him and cheer and stuff, the Germans inside start yelling and there’s a sireny sound and all that–I don’t understand German, but it sure sounded to me like they were about to dive. On the other hand, a sub is going to make much better time on the surface than underneath, and they _were_ in a hurry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-jones-what-if/306180.md?page=4)