# Indiana Supreme Court rules no right to block illegal police entry into home
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 13, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802 "2011-05-13T17:31:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/1 "2011-05-13T17:31:57Z")
Report [here.](http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_ec169697-a19e-525f-a532-81b3df229697.html)
> [@](#):
>
> INDIANAPOLIS | Overturning a common law dating back to the English Magna Carta of 1215, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Hoosiers have no right to resist unlawful police entry into their homes.
>
> In a 3-2 decision, Justice Steven David writing for the court said if a police officer wants to enter a home for any reason or no reason at all, a homeowner cannot do anything to block the officer’s entry.
>
> “We believe … a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence,” David said. “We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without preventing the arrest.”
On the face of it this seems rather worrying. I don’t live in Indiana but it would concern me if this is really the way that the constitutional law wind is blowing.
So is this a reasonable decision given the imperatives of preventing domestic violence or a maverick one that rides roughshod over the Fourth Amendment? I’m leaning towards the latter but I’m willing to reserve judgment until I hear all the arguments.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/2 "2011-05-13T17:38:50Z")
The decision seems to be saying:
The public has no right to resist an illegal activity, because (in part), the resistance would cause the perpetrators of the illegal act to become more violent.
This seems somehow… bizarre.
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/3 "2011-05-13T17:43:29Z")
Makes sense. I mean, I imagine cops don’t show up at your door saying that they’re going to illegally search your home, presumably these things come up when the Cops claim its legal and the homeowner says it isn’t. Sometimes the homeowner may very well be correct, but the place to settle that is a court, not with both sides trying to bludgeon eachother at the doorway.
If I get wrongly accused of shoplifting and the Cop shows up to arrest me, the fact that I’m innocent doesn’t mean I can legally hit the cop over the head and run away. I still have to allow him to arrest me and then defend my innocence in court. Being innocent doesn’t allow me to resist arrest.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/4 "2011-05-13T17:48:56Z")
If a cop shows up at the door without a warrant, and says that he doesn’t need a warrant, I have to let him in?
If someone _claims_ to be a cop, but refuses to show a warrant or an i.d., I have to let him in?
This is going to make home invasions a whole lot easier.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/5 "2011-05-13T17:52:29Z")
As an Indiana resident I find this decision troubling and hope it gets overturned by the SCotUS.
I do understand the concerns here - Indiana has some of the most liberal laws in regards to residents arming themselves, and police do have legitimate concerns don’t only about getting shoved around but also possibly shot at, given the prevalence of gun ownership.
On the flip side, this would be far too easy to abuse.
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/6 "2011-05-13T17:53:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> If a cop shows up at the door without a warrant, and says that he doesn’t need a warrant, I have to let him in?
Cops don’t necessarily require a warrant to legally gain entry to your home.
As to the fake cop thing, you can use the same reasoning to say it should be legal to resist arrest (after all, it might be a fake cop there to kidnap you) or try and outrun a cop trying to pull you over (it might be a fake cop trying to carjack you), etc.
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/7 "2011-05-13T17:54:17Z")
I think it’s a sensible decision. The homeowner is not in a position to know when entries are lawful and when they are not. If you had a _right_ to resist an unlawful entry, I can easily see many lawful entries being resisted because the homeowner did not know what information the police were operating on, or what constitutes a lawful entry.
It potentially increases the level of violence in all entries, legal or otherwise.
I assume illegal entries are still subject to lawsuits and criminal liability on the part of the police officers, as well as prohibiting the use of any evidence gained from the illegal act.
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/8 "2011-05-13T17:56:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> On the flip side, this would be far too easy to abuse.
How exactly? Its not making it legal for cops to illegally enter your home. Its just saying that if they do, you need to go after them in court rather then trying to initiate a fire-fight with them. As a practical matter, this is probably what happens in most cases anyways. I doubt most people try and resist entries into their home, and amongst the ones that do, I doubt very many of them are successful.
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### Author:  [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/9 "2011-05-13T17:59:24Z")
I think I generally side with the dissenters here in that the ruling was probably correct for the case in question, but that the opinion was overly broad. I’d rather see it more narrowly focused on the facts of this case.
One question about the facts of the case that was not clear from that article - was the search already deemed unlawful by a lower court?
It does seem clear that the remedy for unlawful search and seizure is civil action and the exclusionary rule, not violent resistance.
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### Author:  [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/10 "2011-05-13T17:59:27Z")
Not all police are in uniform.
The idea that your home is your castle is gone. They can barge through your front door and you are not allowed to do anything? This is horrible.
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### Author:  [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/11 "2011-05-13T18:00:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#):
>
> Not all police are in uniform.
> The idea that your home is your castle is gone. They can barge through your front door and you are not allowed to do anything? This is horrible.
The “home is your castle” comment makes me wonder - how does this square with so-called “Castle Doctrine” laws that allow you to shoot a home intruder?
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### Author:  [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/12 "2011-05-13T18:16:43Z")
Looks to me like the Indiana Court is legislating what they think might be good ideas. Used to be I could shoot an unlawful intruder even if he/she turned out to be a cop. So much for 800 years of jurisprudence.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/13 "2011-05-13T18:18:00Z")
The poorest man in his cottage, may bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storms may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter; all his forces dare not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement-William Pitt
I’m bothered by the decision.
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/14 "2011-05-13T18:24:04Z")
Presumably, in the case decided, the Indiana Supreme Court was saying that the police officer’s entry into the house was unlawful, since, if it was lawful, the ruling is just obiter dicta. Since it was unlawful, can the householder get damages from the police officer concerned and/or his police department?
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/15 "2011-05-13T18:24:23Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#):
>
> Used to be I could shoot an unlawful intruder even if he/she turned out to be a cop.
Can you shoot a cop who is lawfully entering your home?
Can you tell the difference in the amount of time it takes you to pull a trigger?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/16 "2011-05-13T18:31:32Z")
> [@Simplicio](#):
>
> Makes sense. I mean, I imagine cops don’t show up at your door saying that they’re going to illegally search your home, presumably these things come up when the Cops claim its legal and the homeowner says it isn’t. Sometimes the homeowner may very well be correct, but the place to settle that is a court, not with both sides trying to bludgeon eachother at the doorway.
>
> If I get wrongly accused of shoplifting and the Cop shows up to arrest me, the fact that I’m innocent doesn’t mean I can legally hit the cop over the head and run away. I still have to allow him to arrest me and then defend my innocence in court. Being innocent doesn’t allow me to resist arrest.
That was my reaction. I’d like to see a cite that this overturns a precedent going back to the Magna Carta.
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### Author:  [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/17 "2011-05-13T18:40:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> If a cop shows up at the door without a warrant, and says that he doesn’t need a warrant, I have to let him in?
> If someone _claims_ to be a cop, but refuses to show a warrant or an i.d., I have to let him in?
>
> This is going to make home invasions a whole lot easier.
No - they’re talking about forcibly resisting. It’s the same rule that applies in any other state. If a cop enters my home with a search warrant, I can’t body bock him.
well, i can, but i’d get arrested.
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/18 "2011-05-13T18:44:27Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#):
>
> No - they’re talking about forcibly resisting. It’s the same rule that applies in any other state. If a cop enters my home with a search warrant, I can’t body bock him.
>
> well, i can, but i’d get arrested.
In this case, there was no search warrant. A couple had been arguing outside their home, then went inside. The police officer tried to follow them without a warrant, presumably to help settle the domestic disturbance.
And presumably the court is saying that he could not do so lawfully without the householder’s permission.
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### Author:  [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/19 "2011-05-13T19:04:07Z")
> [@Giles](#):
>
> Presumably, in the case decided, the Indiana Supreme Court was saying that the police officer’s entry into the house was unlawful, since, if it was lawful, the ruling is just obiter dicta. Since it was unlawful, can the householder get damages from the police officer concerned and/or his police department?
In its opinion, the court says that it did not need to rule upon the legality of the officer’s entry, since its overall finding meant that the defendant’s resistance was unjustified either way.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indiana-supreme-court-rules-no-right-to-block-illegal-police-entry-into-home/581802/20 "2011-05-13T19:09:49Z")
> [@gonzomax](#):
>
> Not all police are in uniform.
> The idea that your home is your castle is gone. They can barge through your front door and you are not allowed to do anything? This is horrible.
Shut up and do what you’re told, you goddamn peasant. And if the cops decide to take your wife with them as a comfort woman, your only lawful recourse is to sue.
:mad:
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