# Indianapolis Colts vs. Baltimore 500? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 26, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008 "2009-01-26T03:28:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/1 "2009-01-26T03:28:31Z")
Old news, but I must ask: Can the Dopers of Indianapolis explain what the name “Colts” means to them, and why they didn’t push Irsay to have some common sense and change the name? {Now, why Baltimore didn’t become the Balti 500 instead of the Ravens is beyond me! 😉 } ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/2 "2009-01-26T03:33:14Z")
Wow, the Admin is sure picky! I think what we have here is a “failure to communicate”! For in rthe course of “Great Debates”, I can’t think of a better one as this has nothing to do with sports, really! - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/3 "2009-01-26T03:39:31Z")
What I wonder about ,is who claims Unitas as their great QB.? He played for Baltimore Colts. Now the Colts are Indianapolis. Does Baltimore have any claim to him? Is he now an Indy hero:? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/4 "2009-01-26T03:54:21Z")
There’s a lot of animosity between older Baltimore fans and the Colts, but I think this is a better fit for The Game Room than Great Debates. Anyway teams often don’t change their names when they move. I suppose the owners don’t want to give up any measure of brand recognition. It leads to weird, usually dumb combinations. I saw the Memphis Grizzlies play the other night and couldn’t figure out why they didn’t change their name when they moved from Vancouver years ago. Baseball teams always seem to change their names, but in other sports it’s a tossup. One exception: I think “Utah Jazz” is so weird it’s inspired. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/5 "2009-01-26T04:08:58Z")
Indy resident here, but I’m not primarily a Colts fan (grew up in KC, and am a Chiefs fan). But I can report that after the Super Bowl, there was a lot of talk radio support for “finally being able to release the pre-Indy history back to Baltimore”. I can’t say there’d be much support for returning their name, but there is zero connection to Unitas and friends. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/6 "2009-01-26T04:24:10Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > What I wonder about ,is who claims Unitas as their great QB.? They both “claim” him, but his records belong officially to the Indianapolis Colts. I believe the Cleveland Browns’ records remained in Cleveland, however. ---
**Author:** ![movingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@movingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/movingfinger)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/7 "2009-01-26T04:44:10Z")
I have always felt that if our basketball team couldn’t change its name it could at least spell it “LAkers”. A few years back some sports writer suggested the Utah Jazz and LA Lakers should swap team names. Makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/8 "2009-01-26T04:49:54Z")
> [@movingfinger](#): > > A few years back some sports writer suggested the Utah Jazz and LA Lakers should swap team names. Makes sense. The Jazz name started when the team was in New Orleans, so probably the Utah (Beehive State) team should just swap names with the New Orleans Hornets. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/9 "2009-01-26T05:02:35Z")
The Ravens was chosen as a nod to Edgar Allan Poe, a famous Balt’more resident who wrote a poem about black birds. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/10 "2009-01-26T06:23:02Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > What I wonder about ,is who claims Unitas as their great QB.? He played for Baltimore Colts. Now the Colts are Indianapolis. Does Baltimore have any claim to him? Is he now an Indy hero:? Indianapolis claims Unitas as a member of their organization. Unitas himself (along with many of the other Baltimore Colts players) was a Baltimore guy, and was never happy being associated with Indy. From wikipedia: > [@](#): > > After his playing days were finished, Unitas settled in Baltimore where he raised his family, while also pursuing a career in broadcasting, doing color commentary for NFL games on CBS in the 1970s. After Robert Irsay moved the Colts franchise to Indianapolis, in 1984, a move reviled to this day in Baltimore as “Bob Irsay’s Midnight Ride,” Unitas was so outraged that he cut all ties to the relocated team (though his #19 jersey is still retired by the Colts). Other prominent old-time Colts followed his lead. He asked the Pro Football Hall of Fame on numerous occasions (including on Roy Firestone’s Up Close) to remove his display unless it was listed as belonging to the Baltimore Colts. The Hall of Fame has never complied with the request. Unitas donated his Colts memorabilia to the Babe Ruth Museum in Baltimore; it is now on display in the Sports Museum at Camden Yards. > > Unitas actively lobbied for another NFL team to come to Baltimore. After the NFL returned to Baltimore as the Ravens for the 1996 season, Unitas and most of the other old-time Colts regarded the Ravens as the true successors of the Baltimore Colts. Unitas was frequently seen on the Ravens’ sidelines at home games and received a thunderous ovation every time he was pictured on each of the huge widescreen SACO SmartVision boards at M&T Bank Stadium. He was often seen on the 30 yard line on the Ravens side. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/11 "2009-01-26T14:09:53Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Indianapolis claims Unitas as a member of their organization. I wouldn’t go this far. While Unitas’ numbers and records and such are \*associated \*with the NFL team in Indianapolis, the team and city don’t make mention of him. I would guess that the NFL requires (if that’s the right term) Indy to stretch their team history back through the Baltimore era because of how the move and Irsay situation played out. Other than Peyton Manning wearing Unitas-era cleats a few years back after Unitas’ death, I can’t think of a recent instance of the team recalling their Baltimore history. Fans here think of the Colts having won just one Super Bowl - in 2005. I think Baltimore deserves their legacy, and to be able to claim their rightful records and titles. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/12 "2009-01-26T15:04:54Z")
Is this attitude unique to football? I’ve never heard anyone suggest that the 1955World Series championsip of the Brooklyn Dodgers doesn’t properly attach to the team in Los Angeles, nor the 1957 Milwaukee Braves World Series championship to Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/13 "2009-01-26T15:18:16Z")
Brooklyn didn’t get a new team. Therefore no conflict. But the difference is that Indy took the Colts name. When Baltimore got a new team they could not become the Colts. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/14 "2009-01-26T16:26:55Z")
Whether the Colts had changed names when moving to Indy or not, the team’s history and records would (and did) move with the team regardless. The only exception I’m aware of is the Cleveland Browns, because the city of Cleveland successfully sued to keep the team’s name and history in Cleveland when they moved to Baltimore. As a result, the Baltimore Ravens officially have no history prior to 1996, and the expansion Browns of 1999 are technically the same team as the “old” Browns. [(cite)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Ravens) But this is the exception, not the rule. Many, many sports teams have moved and taken their histories with them. I think the OP was trying to solicit some personal reactions to the Colts’ move from their fans in both cities, which is an interesting topic. But their situation is by no means unique. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/15 "2009-01-26T17:00:50Z")
Wheelz: > [@](#): > > The only exception I’m aware of is the Cleveland Browns, because the city of Cleveland successfully sued to keep the team’s name and history in Cleveland when they moved to Baltimore. As a result, the Baltimore Ravens officially have no history prior to 1996, and the expansion Browns of 1999 are technically the same team as the “old” Browns. I believe the NBA recently made a similar stipulation regarding the Seattle Sonics/OKC Thunder, in regard to the possibility to a new NBA team in Seattle in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/16 "2009-01-26T17:14:46Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Wheelz: > > I believe the NBA recently made a similar stipulation regarding the Seattle Sonics/OKC Thunder, in regard to the possibility to a new NBA team in Seattle in the future. Any more info on that? I wonder what would happen with current players’ stats/records if Seattle got a franchise, say, next year. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/17 "2009-01-26T18:33:34Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Wheelz: > > I believe the NBA recently made a similar stipulation regarding the Seattle Sonics/OKC Thunder, in regard to the possibility to a new NBA team in Seattle in the future. I hadn’t heard that about the Sonics/Thunder, though not being a big NBA fan I admit I wasn’t paying much attention. I wonder if this kind of arrangement may start becoming the norm rather than the anomaly? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/18 "2009-01-26T18:50:16Z")
Munch: > [@](#): > > Any more info on that? I wonder what would happen with current players’ stats/records if Seattle got a franchise, say, next year. Apparently the history will be considered “shared,” though heaven only knows exactly what that will mean to any practical effect. > [@Wikipedia entry for Seattle SuperSonics](#): > > The SuperSonics nickname, logo, and color scheme will be made available to any subsequent NBA team in Seattle. According to the team’s Oklahoma-based owners, the Sonics’ franchise history will be “shared” between the Thunder and any future Seattle club. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/19 "2009-01-26T19:30:40Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Is this attitude unique to football? I’ve never heard anyone suggest that the 1955World Series championsip of the Brooklyn Dodgers doesn’t properly attach to the team in Los Angeles, nor the 1957 Milwaukee Braves World Series championship to Atlanta. If I recall correctly, there’s a unique situation regarding the Washington Senators. The original Senators eventually packed up and moved to Minneapolis/St.Paul and became the Minnesota Twins. So the Twins have claim to the Senators’ history up until the point of the move. A few years later Washington got a new team, also called the Senators, but their team history began anew, and the Twins still claim the history of the original Senators. Then the second Senators team packed off to Arlington and became the Texas Rangers, and the Rangers claim the second Senators team in their history. So the Twins get to claim Walter “Big Train” Johnson. I don’t think the Rangers have anybody like that from _their_ Senators days. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008/20 "2009-01-26T19:35:48Z")
No, they don’t. Closest is Frank Thomas (a prior one, not the more recent White Sox slugger). And Ted Williams managed the team for a little while. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indianapolis-colts-vs-baltimore-500/483008.md?page=2)