# Indicators of nobility in family names, in various languages **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456 "2004-08-11T23:47:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/1 "2004-08-11T23:47:48Z")
In German, having “von” in your surname almost always means that your family is of the nobility. In French, “de”, “des”, “du”, and “de la” might mean the same thing, although I suspect that if the name is something like “du Chemin” (of the road), or “du Moulin” (of the mill) it probably doesn’t mean the family is noble. What about Japanese names? Is there any kind of immediate indicator of nobility, analogous to the German “von”? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/2 "2004-08-11T23:54:24Z")
The Master speaks on this topic. Well, he does a little. [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_005.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_005.html) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/3 "2004-08-12T03:57:31Z")
I know Japanese used to have certain names that were restricted to kuge and others restricted to buke. I couldn’t tell you what some of those names were, though. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/4 "2004-08-12T04:41:38Z")
You mean like Polish nobility all having “ski” at the end of their names? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/5 "2004-08-12T06:28:37Z")
One of the reasons for the mild air of snottiness that clings to hyphenated names in English in some people’s opinion, is that that originally did use to indicate nobility (or at least gentry). If a gentleman or nobleman died without male issue, his daughters were entitled to inherit his arms and titles. However, he could require in his will that if they were to be passed on, his daughters’ husbands would have to assume his name. (The children of an heraldic heiress were entitled to quarter their mother’s and father’s arms rather than simply inheriting their father’s.) The upshot of which is, having a hyphenated name indicated at one time that one of your female ancestors was an heiress. ---
**Author:** ![Spline32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Spline32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spline32)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/6 "2004-08-12T06:37:03Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > One of the reasons for the mild air of snottiness that clings to hyphenated names in English in some people’s opinion, is that that originally did use to indicate nobility (or at least gentry). > > If a gentleman or nobleman died without male issue, his daughters were entitled to inherit his arms and titles. However, he could require in his will that if they were to be passed on, his daughters’ husbands would have to assume his name. (The children of an heraldic heiress were entitled to quarter their mother’s and father’s arms rather than simply inheriting their father’s.) The upshot of which is, having a hyphenated name indicated at one time that one of your female ancestors was an heiress. my last name is Smith… am I royalty yet? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/7 "2004-08-12T06:57:48Z")
> [@Snakespirit](#): > > You mean like Polish nobility all having “ski” at the end of their names? Practically all Polish have ‘ski’ at the end of their name. It means ‘son of’. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/8 "2004-08-12T13:37:39Z")
> [@Thaumaturge](#): > > Practically all Polish have ‘ski’ at the end of their name. It means ‘son of’. I think you were being whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/9 "2004-08-12T15:32:14Z")
I believe there are several Indian last names that are generally good indicators of Caste. _Patel_ and _Brahman_ for instance. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/10 "2004-08-12T23:16:56Z")
> [@Thaumaturge](#): > > Practically all Polish have ‘ski’ at the end of their name. It means ‘son of’. Sooo, my cousin Piesski is a son of a Pies? Pies = female dog… 😛 Bzzzzzzt! Actually, it was a semi-whoosh, a bit of troll bait attached to a fishline of knowledge: Here’s a quote: Emphasis mine. > [@](#): > > The suffix -ski is commonly said to prove “noble” origin of a family. This was true about 200 years ago. Presently most people whose surnames end with -ski (or -cki which is a phonetic variant of -ski) originate from the former lower social classes. This phenomenon is easily explained because in the 19th century everybody wanted to be considered as “noble”, thus many people improved their names with this suffix. -ski is also a place name suffix, or toponymic (not a patronymic, which would be 'son of), and when nobility (landed gentry) was configured in Poland, you got your name from the estate you owned. To check if a name has a noble origin or peasant origin, you can check heraldic crests. Or check if a name has a profession tied to it. Kowal is the Polish equivalent of Smith, a blacksmith. Kowalski is not noble. Golina is an estate district, now a town. Golinski is noble. You can find the cites for this into at [This siteski](http://www.polishroots.org/genpoland/surnames.htm) and links to other pages as well. Fighting ignorance, one post at a time. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/11 "2004-08-13T02:15:08Z")
The surname “Fitzroy” indicates one was at least connected somehow to royalty, though probably as a bastard. :dubious: The name literally means “son of the king.” The example that comes to mind is the surname that was assigned to the bastard son of King Henry VIII: Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Richmond and Somerset. A quick search indicates that the surname is still commonly in use to this day (though not descended from Henry Fitzroy; he died without issue). ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indicators-of-nobility-in-family-names-in-various-languages/259456/12 "2004-08-13T02:34:28Z")
Ahh…I mis-remembered what my mother told me. ‘-ski’ means of ,from, pertaining to. So my mother is a descendant of a woodcutter. Which vaguely sounds like what I said. 😛