# Indie rock: the new white kids' music **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 16, 2005, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934 "2005-09-16T06:22:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![unophobia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/41988e/32.png) [@unophobia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unophobia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/61 "2005-09-18T23:19:18Z")
I’m sorry, but I find Napoleon Dynamite to be more rebellious than indie music. Besides, isn’t it just more Whitey singing the blues? ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/62 "2005-09-18T23:52:24Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > I hear all these bands all the time on Sirius’s [Left of Center](http://www.sirius.com/LeftOfCenter). If you want to hear good music, you need satellite radio. It’s not a problem of wanting to hear good music. I got Soulseek and my CD collection for that. It’s my bewilderment as to why there are so many catchy songs (not to mention INFINITELY better than the likes of the current pop punk drivel) that are completely ignored by the mainstream when they would surely reap huge benefits by bringing these bands out from the underground. But as you can probably figure out from my other posts, if the mainstream doesn’t want um…I got no particular issue with that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/63 "2005-09-19T01:09:33Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > (not to mention INFINITELY better than the likes of the current pop punk drivel) That’s just your opinion, though. There’s no objective standard for measuring the quality of a song that’ll back you up, and the ones that do exist tend to favor the pop punk stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Treviathan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@Treviathan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treviathan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/64 "2005-09-19T01:56:51Z")
Okay, here’s my two cents on the evolution of the term “indie rock.” The current popularity of “indie” rock (which I know is a misleading term now that bands like Death Cab are with majors, but bear with me) is a direct result of, in my opinion, the phenomenon of illegal downloading and ITunes and other variations on that theme. Listeners, tired of the relatively formulaic music played on commercial radio stations, and now with the means suddenly to listen to bands they’ve never heard of without shelling out for the album, seek out alternatives. Many of those alternatives are so-called “indie” bands. So major labels rush out to sign bands like Death Cab and Franz Ferdinand to capitalize on this sudden shift in public taste. Except - and here’s where things, I think, get complicated for the casual listener - they also try to cultivate an aura of “indie coolness” around artists who are, well, pretty much just commercially-driven acts. (Jason Mraz, I’m looking in your direction.) Plus there’s an added level of confusion in that the demographics of “emo” and “indie” fans overlap somewhat, so _those_ two genres get confused as well. So, essentially, you get a popular conception of this term, “indie rock,” that means something very specific to someone who grew up listening to bands like Neutral Milk Hotel and Modest Mouse, but means something very different to someone who’s first experience with Death Cab was seeing them on the O.C. ---
**Author:** ![Treviathan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@Treviathan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treviathan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/65 "2005-09-19T02:01:52Z")
Oh, and the main reason I listen to indie music is because Amy Millan of Stars has stolen my heart, and if I keep spending money at their shows and on their CDs then maybe one day she’ll give it back to me. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/66 "2005-09-19T02:09:05Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > There’s no objective standard for measuring the quality of a song that’ll back you up, and the ones that do exist tend to favor the pop punk stuff. If you’re talking about measuring _monetary_ quality than I agree with you obviously, but there is certainly no measure that favors pop punk when it comes to artistic quality, of which many have very little. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/67 "2005-09-19T03:17:38Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > If you’re talking about measuring _monetary_ quality than I agree with you obviously, but there is certainly no measure that favors pop punk when it comes to artistic quality, of which many have very little. What _measures_ of quality favor indie rock over pop punk? Keep in mind that you need something that, if not quantifiable, is at least something that different audiences will agree on. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/68 "2005-09-19T04:13:47Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > What _measures_ of quality favor indie rock over pop punk? Keep in mind that you need something that, if not quantifiable, is at least something that different audiences will agree on. Well, like any genre, yes, there are bound to be lots of sub par bands that fall under the indie umbrella. But I guess since multiple audiences have to agree in order to quantify what you describe, it would never hold up. The majority of people who listen to the radio and MTV and are only looking for a quick fix of the latest flavor of the month and quite honestly don’t give a shit about what they’re listening to. Sure they’ll defend Fallout Boy’s latest single if you tell them it sucks, but if that single didn’t exist there would be a band EXACTLY like Fallout Boy to fill that same niche of crap that they would then defend. But people who are actually music fans; fans of substance over style, would not be able to defend radio pop punk as anything more than bland, harmless fluff. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/69 "2005-09-19T04:22:51Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > But people who are actually music fans; fans of substance over style, would not be able to defend radio pop punk as anything more than bland, harmless fluff. You’re still missing the point. There is no objective standard by which we can say that pop punk is bland, harmless and fluffy, and indie rock is not. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/70 "2005-09-19T04:30:22Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > You’re still missing the point. There is no objective standard by which we can say that pop punk is bland, harmless and fluffy, and indie rock is not. So then what is _your_ opinion on pop punk? Not asking condescendingly, just curious, since as you said, there is no objective standard. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/71 "2005-09-19T04:41:31Z")
Depends on what you mean. I’ll agree with you that Good Charlotte/Blink-182/etc. are very fluffy, although I certainly couldn’t prove it. But if you’re talking (early) Green Day/Discount/bands like them, well, that’s a little less clear. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/72 "2005-09-19T06:27:37Z")
Yeah, I’ll fight you if you say the Mr. T Experience is bland, harmless and fluffy. ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934/73 "2005-09-19T08:09:59Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Yeah, I’ll fight you if you say the Mr. T Experience is bland, harmless and fluffy. I agree with wholeheartedly with your sentiment… but he did actually say radio pop punk. I’ve never heard MTX on commercial radio. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indie-rock-the-new-white-kids-music/321934.md?page=3)