# Indispensible Band Members ("It's Not \_ Without \_") **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408 "2003-08-11T15:57:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![hardygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@hardygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/41 "2003-08-12T03:41:25Z")
Kurt Cobain was Nirvana. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/42 "2003-08-12T04:16:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NDP \* > **No Michael Stipe; no REM.** True enough, but without Peter Buck and Mike Mills, he’d look kinda silly up there. I’d go so far as to say that it hasn’t really been R.E.M. since Bill Berry left; it kind of makes me wish they’d renamed themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/43 "2003-08-12T04:35:24Z")
It’s not Queen without Freddie Mercury. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/44 "2003-08-12T12:53:44Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by InternetLegend_ > True enough, but without Peter Buck and Mike Mills, he’d look kinda silly up there. I’d go so far as to say that it hasn’t really been R.E.M. since Bill Berry left; it kind of makes me wish they’d renamed themselves. I was going to say the same thing myself. Peter Buck and Mike Mills are just as integral to the band as Michael Stipe is, and they just haven’t been the same since Bill quit. They’ve made some alright music, but they just aren’t properly R.E.M. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/45 "2003-08-12T13:11:28Z")
It’s not Crosby, Stills and Nash without Crosby or Stills or Nash. It’s not Beck, Bogert and Appice without Beck or Bogert or Appice. It’s not Emerson, Lake & Palmer without…ah, you get the idea. It wasn’t Fleetwood Mac without Mick Fleetwood or John McVie. For 10 Bonus Points, who were the guys in that bogus band that toured for a short while? It just ain’t Billy Joel without Liberty DeVitto. It isn’t Pat Benatar without Neil Geraldo/Giraldo. And despite my love of the band, it ain’t Feat without Lowell George. I wish they’d called it Littler Feat, or Slightly Small Feat or Bigger Feat or something. There are a few bands that just have to have everybody. My votes would go to: Queen, Beatles, Led Zepplin. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/46 "2003-08-12T13:23:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NDP \* > The Who is still The Who with just Pete Townshend and Roger Daltry–but just barely. Eh, I don’t think so. They made it with three out of four, but now, I don’t know. The Who is one of my all-time favorite bands, but I don’t know if I’d pay to see them with just those two. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/47 "2003-08-12T13:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > The Allman Brothers quit being brothers (plural) when Duane died in a bike wreck, yet the band has lived on. And they lost Berry Oakley, who was the secondary leader after Duane (on top of being a fantastic bassist), a year later. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![paulberserker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@paulberserker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulberserker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/48 "2003-08-12T13:55:13Z")
have to agree with nailbunny. i was going to go see cave & the bad seeds in june or july until i found out blixa left. we also went to see the peter green splinter group last year, and that was just sad. there is no peter green left from albatross/oh well era fleetwood mac. its just a zombie barely strumming chords in front of a bunch of guys doing their own thing leeching off his name. i wouldnt see cheap trick if rick neilsen left either. or robin zander ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/49 "2003-08-12T14:03:38Z")
**NoCoolUserName** ’s post brought something to mind. Which bands are made entirely of indispensible members? And no silly Simon and Garfunkel ones either. ---
**Author:** ![pokey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ebca7d/32.png) [@pokey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pokey)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/50 "2003-08-12T14:16:44Z")
There is no Misfits without Danzig despite what some people might think. Also, for me there was no Blue Rodeo without Bob Wiseman. Which is pretty stubborn but I’ve stuck with it. ---
**Author:** ![Coil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Coil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coil)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/51 "2003-08-12T14:30:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NailBunny \* > \*\* > And I don’t know how it’s going to be Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds without Blixa Bargeld, pretty much the only constant Bad Seed that’s remained through all the years. I love Nick Cave more than anything, but I don’t know if I’ll go see them live now knowing that Blixa isn’t there. ☹ \*\* Losing Blixa is a blow to the band. They will have to rename themselves Nick Cave and the Not as Bad Seeds. I am glad I finally got to see them on the No more shall we part tour, when they were complete with Blixa. Robert Smith is The Cure and Andrew Eldritch is The Sisters of Mercy. In both of these bands they are the singer/songwriter and the only member who has been in the band from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/52 "2003-08-12T14:39:26Z")
I guess Billy Corgan was the Smashing Pumpkins, quite literally. ---
**Author:** ![Intaglio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71e660/32.png) [@Intaglio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intaglio)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/53 "2003-08-12T14:43:14Z")
There would be no Foo-Fighters without Dave Grohl. ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/54 "2003-08-12T15:08:46Z")
I don’t think anyone’s mentioned **The Cure** yet, but it would be impossible to conceive of them without Robert Smith. I would say that it most circumstances, the Cure really needs him and Simon Gallup at the core, but Robert’s probably the only truly indispensable one. The Cure has been able to go through one period without Gallup but it could never go without Robert. (I still think the best lineup for the Cure was in the mid-80s–Smith, Gallup, Lol Tolhurst, Porl Thompson, and Boris Williams–but that may be because that was when I started listening to them!) ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/55 "2003-08-12T18:15:50Z")
“Gargoyle, please correct me if I am wrong, but you ARE saying here that…” Uh, correct. I think I double-negatived myself. Ozzy and Bon were not indispensible, i.e. the bands carried on just fine with their replacements. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/56 "2003-08-12T19:10:20Z")
You need both Ray and Dave Davies to be The Kinks. You need John, Paul, George, and Ringo for The Beatles, _and they all have to be alive!!_ Sorry, but digging up some old unreleased Lennon material and overdubbing new parts does _not_ make it The Beatles. They needed to play off of each other. No Joey, no Ramones. They weren’t as good without Dee Dee, but they were still Ramones. On a related note, I heard that the current touring version of Frankie Goes To Hollywood has _no_ original members, and is headed by two studio musicians that played on _Welcome to the Pleasuredome_ that somehow acquired the legal rights to the band name. No Diamond Dave, no Van Halen. Back in the 80s I was surprised at how quickly the J. Geils Band imploded without Peter Wolf. No Paul Westerberg, no Replacements. ---
**Author:** ![NailBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NailBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NailBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/57 "2003-08-12T19:24:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Losing Blixa is a blow to the band. They will have to rename themselves Nick Cave and the Not as Bad Seeds. > > I am glad I finally got to see them on the No more shall we part tour, when they were complete with Blixa. No kidding; I consider myself extremely lucky to have seen them in Portland, OR on the NMSWP tour. Not only was the concert cancelled after 9/11, only to be rescheduled later, but Blixa was there and I was about 1/2 a foot from both of them as they sang _The Weeping Song_. _sigh_ I thought about trying to make it to California to see them a couple months back, but knowing Blixa wouldn’t be there my heart just wasn’t in it. And amen to no Ramones without Joey! I still get misty-eyed every time I watch _Rock and Roll High School_. Let’s see, who else… I know!!! No **Christian Death** without Roz Williams!!! ---
**Author:** ![Ich\_Bin\_s](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Ich\_Bin\_s](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ich_Bin_s)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/58 "2003-08-12T19:37:38Z")
A cookie for anyone who knows who I’m talking about. It’s not **Godbulliesp** without Mike Hard (though they tried). And it’s still not **Godbullies** without David B. Livingston (though they tried that, too). It’s not **Hammerhead** without Apollo 9 It’s barely **Jesus Lizard** without Mac, no offense to the powerful Jim Okay, no cookie for mouthbreather on the last one, but cookies for the other two. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/59 "2003-08-12T21:39:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rubystreak \* > But I do have to disagree with people who say that Roger Waters sucks. Come on, guys. You might miss Syd Barrett, and you may not personally like Waters, but he’s a gifted lyricist, probably one of the best in rock, ever. I think that the post-Barrett Pink Floyd with Waters is easily one of the greatest rock bands of all time. JMO, YMMV, I guess, somehow… As the first person in the thread to take a cheap shot at Waters, I largely agree with you, but only in the past tense. That is, Waters _was_ a talented lyricist, he _was_ an exceedingly inventive guy, and the post-Barrett Pink Floyd _was_ one of the greatest rock bands of all time. If only he’d stopped with _The Wall_. Instead, he put out one essentially unlistenable PF album (_The Final Cut_), then released a handful of completely unlistenable solo albums that made it perfectly clear David Gilmour was responsible for the vast majority of all that great Floyd music. The post-Waters albums will never rival the stuff from Floyd’s heyday, but they are pretty good records. For that, I am quite grateful for Waters’ decision to quit the band. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408/60 "2003-08-13T00:48:26Z")
I think the “not Billy Joel without Liberty Devitto” was meant a bit tongue in cheek. After all, Liberty doesn’t play the piano, he plays the drums. Still, if you feel that way, you have to throw out the studio album _Piano Man_ and the title cut because the drummer there was session player Ron Tutt. Billy didn’t get his regular live-performance band into the studio until _Turnstiles_ and it really shows in the quality of the arrangements. Billy’s regular band had a lot to do with his particular sound. On a similar note, though, let me add… it ain’t Elton without Bernie. FISH [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indispensible-band-members-its-not-_-without-_/194408.md?page=4)