# Individual Franchise Installments: Star Wars, Star Trek, or LOTR **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 5, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636 "2009-10-05T03:21:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/1 "2009-10-05T03:21:48Z")
100 people have responded to the other poll thus far, w/a pretty even 50/50 split between _LOTR_ and the other two (both of which also split their half 50/50). But if you had to vote for the single best individual film from these 3 franchises, which would it be? I’ve listed all the films in chronological order. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/2 "2009-10-05T03:29:13Z")
“Wrath of Khan.” Hands down. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/3 "2009-10-05T03:32:26Z")
Ditto **dropzone**. “Wrath of Khan” takes it, with “The Empire Strikes Back” in second place. “Fellowship of the Ring” takes third. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/4 "2009-10-05T15:38:18Z")
FOTR certainly. TWOK, while I acknowledge as being a good film, personally leaves me a bit cold. FOTR completely transports you to a completely different time and place. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/5 "2009-10-05T16:16:44Z")
_The Empire Strikes Back_. While Wrath of Khan is generally good, and certainly the best of the Star Trek movies, it was nothing but a remake of one of the original episodes (“Balance of Terror”) with the added benefit of Ricardo Montalban. And it has the forgettable scream. And I’m not certain I’ll ever manage to consider the various LotR movies on their own merits without being mad about the way PJ treated the original books. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/6 "2009-10-05T16:18:59Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > Ditto **dropzone**. “Wrath of Khan” takes it, with “The Empire Strikes Back” in second place. “Fellowship of the Ring” takes third. ditto ditto. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/7 "2009-10-05T16:38:18Z")
I voted for Fellowship of the Ring. It’s not even close, being the one movie on the list I’d call truly great. The Two Towers would be number two, then Wrath of Khan, then Voyage Home, then Empire Strikes Back, and finally Star Wars. All of these are very good movies, suffering mostly by comparison to the greatness of FoTR. Most of the other movies on the list are mediocre at best, and the 2009 Star Trek is actively bad. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/8 "2009-10-05T17:49:17Z")
As I wrote in the [parent thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=534449): 1. The Fellowship of the Ring 2. Star Wars 3. The Wrath of Khan 4. The Return of the King 5. The One With the Whales 6. The Empire Strikes Back 7. The Two Towers 8. Return of the Jedi 9. Star Trek (2009) 10. Star Trek: The Motion Picture “The Wrath of Khan” and “Star Wars” thrilled me as a kid, but I don’t think I’d feel the same about them if I had first seen them in the last decade. “Fellowship” blew me away even as a somewhat-cynical adult. “Return of the King” was exciting and deeply moving, but suffered from simultaneously packing too much in and leaving too much out. The One With the Whales was fun. “The Empire Strikes Back” and “The Two Towers” were impressive, but I like stories with beginnings and endings. These were all middle, and therefore unfulfilling. “Towers” in particular had the feeling of ending exactly where it began – mankind on the edge of a huge battle, the hobbits grimly trudging toward Mordor. “Return of the Jedi” had Ewoks, blowing up the Death Star again, and one of the least convincing redemptions in film history, but Han Solo came back, so all was forgiven. “Star Trek: The Motion Picture” and “Star Trek” were both seriously flawed, but at least the 2009 movie wasn’t drab and boring. The third Star Trek movie left very little impression on me, except I thought it was an awful cheat, even in terms of sci-fi/fantasy, and I stopped watching the original-cast movies after the one with the whales, which I figured was a good place to end. I did see the first couple of Next Generation movies and the Star Wars prequels, and they’re not even in the same class as the films numbered above. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/9 "2009-10-05T17:55:08Z")
_A New Hope_, back when it was just called _Star Wars_, was a near-perfect Sci-fi flick with effects the likes of which we’d never seen before. As heavy and bloated the series eventually became, this one was pure fun, and still holds up today as a great stand-alone film. Gets my vote. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/10 "2009-10-05T18:06:09Z")
The hell with the IV – it was **Star Wars** when I saw it, and that’s what I loved. Pure space opera, but filled with excitement and wonder. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/11 "2009-10-05T18:40:54Z")
Ditto. I voted for the one I saw 26 times in the theater. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/12 "2009-10-05T19:04:54Z")
_Star Wars_. I can’t forget the magic in that theater when I saw it for the first time, and it’s held up through dozens of repeat viewings that summer … and countless more in the decades since. Pure confection, unpretentious, simple, iconic _Star Wars_. It’s joy made manifest in celluloid. Next would be _Empire_ with all the LOTR movies very very closely tied. Not sure which I liked best, either TTT or ROTK. It’s hard to tell, because I was so much more invested in the characters/story by then, so that last film meant more to me. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/13 "2009-10-05T20:37:32Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > TWOK, while I acknowledge as being a good film, personally leaves me a bit cold. It is very cold in space… ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/14 "2009-10-06T01:26:06Z")
…but the sea has the hottest blood of all (I personally like the Whale Pic over TWOK). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/15 "2009-10-06T01:49:21Z")
I don’t believe D H Lawrence is canon. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/16 "2009-10-06T06:12:41Z")
Looks like I’m one of two who both likes _Star Trek_ better and thinks 4 was better than 2. I’m also probably the only one who thinks comedy trumps drama. But am I alone in thinking Star Trek IV is better than Khan? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/17 "2009-10-06T17:03:01Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Looks like I’m one of two who both likes _Star Trek_ better and thinks 4 was better than 2. I’m also probably the only one who thinks comedy trumps drama. > > But am I alone in thinking Star Trek IV is better than Khan? \ [Hint: the number you seek is 14.] ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/18 "2009-10-13T21:50:24Z")
And the final (for now) tally is **Star Wars** : 30 **LOTR** : 21 **Star Trek** 13 So even though The Force ranked 3rd in the Franchise vote thread, the sum of the favored individual installments (all from the original trilogy) still hold enough power to overcome the forces of Tolkien & Jackson. Keep voting! (the other thread tallied over 100) ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/19 "2009-10-13T22:16:50Z")
Yeah, except that ME has (as of this moment) only had 3 films made, SW universe 6, ST universe…um…(counts on fingers) 12 I think including the reboot. If you look at averages instead ME comes out ahead, mainly because of the dismal showing of the SW prequels; Trek brings up the rear-interesting that nobody voted for the reboot, despite the near-1000 post thread we had on it early in the summer… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636/20 "2009-10-14T01:00:13Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Keep voting! (the other thread tallied over 100) Do you mean, “Vote early and often!” or are you encouraging those who have not voted to do so? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/individual-franchise-installments-star-wars-star-trek-or-lotr/512636.md?page=2)