# Indonesia proposes moving capital from Jakarta to a new city in the Borneo jungle **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 19, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341 "2023-03-19T03:35:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/1 "2023-03-19T03:35:59Z")
This story, another version of which appeared in my local newspaper today, was of interest to me because my niece spent the summer of 2018 in Jakarta, Indonesia as an exchange student. Anyway, they’re planning to move the capital from Jakarta to an as yet unnamed new city, carved out of the jungle in Borneo. Never mind endangered species or indigenous tribes, and it’s been done before, by Brazil (Brasilia) and Nigeria (Abuja). > **[Why Is Indonesia Moving Its Capital from Jakarta to Borneo?](https://time.com/6261298/indonesia-new-capital-explained/)** > > The Southeast Asian island-nation unveiled the construction site of its new capital. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/2 "2023-03-19T04:44:01Z")
And Egypt, if I’m not mistaken, and Pakistan. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/3 "2023-03-19T04:50:35Z")
And the United States of America. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/4 "2023-03-19T04:52:48Z")
A big problem with Jakarta is that it is sinking: [https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/indonesias-giant-capital-city-is-sinking-can-the-governments-plan-save-it](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/indonesias-giant-capital-city-is-sinking-can-the-governments-plan-save-it) ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/5 "2023-03-19T04:56:19Z")
And Myanmar (Naypyidaw). ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/6 "2023-03-19T05:03:15Z")
Yes, it is, and 30 million people really cannot live in a space the size of Des Moines, although they do. There are high-rises and shantytowns, and lots of people also live in boats. When my niece arrived, she had never seen smog, and asked if it was due to being near the equator. I never heard any stories about her experiencing any form of turista, but she definitely got a terrible sinus infection, probably from all that air pollution. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/7 "2023-03-19T05:05:23Z")
This is old news … discussion of moving the capital has been going on for as long as I can remember (and I can remember back to 1993 when I first moved to Jakarta). It might actually happen at some point, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. The more interesting approach to me is to look at the generic topic of, “When countries move their capital cities from one location to another.” It’s hardly unknown, historically speaking, and the subject generates some interesting questions. For example, some questions that might be worth exploring are: do particular classes of nations do this? What are their motivations? How succesful or unsuccessful have those who have completed the effort been? Definitely a few PhD dissertations to be found in the answers. ETA: maybe I should note that no fewer than three of the countries I’ve lived in have been involved in capital-moving: FSM moved from Kolonia to Palikir while I lived there; Egypt was in the early stages of moving from Cairo to New Cairo during my residence; and Indonesia used to talk about moving to Bandung, then came up with this whole Kalimantan idea. Speaking of which, not “Borneo.” Borneo island is partly Indonesian and partly Malaysian territory. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/8 "2023-03-19T05:12:15Z")
Thanks for your insights, @CairoCarol. She participated in this program, and Tajikistan was her second choice. She chose Indonesia because it’s the 4th most populous country in the world, something I hadn’t previously known either. > **[Exchange Programs |](https://exchanges.state.gov/us/program/nsliy)** > > Find U.S. Department of State programs for U.S. and non-U.S. citizens wishing to participate in cultural, educational, or professional exchanges. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/9 "2023-03-19T05:16:40Z")
@nearwildheaven, I hope your niece had a wonderful experience in Indonesia; it is a truly extraordinary nation. And not only is it the 4th most populous country in the world, as you correctly note, it is also the largest Islam-majority country in the world, which geopolitically speaking is significant. (Or at least significant enough that I got a free education at Cornell University to learn to speak the national language of Indonesia, courtesy of Uncle Sam many years ago.) ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/10 "2023-03-19T09:48:30Z")
From the article, bolding mine. > [@](#): > > Widodo’s plan to establish the city of Nusantara — an **old Javanese** term meaning “archipelago” — will entail constructing government buildings and housing from scratch. I find the choice of a Javanese name for the new capital intriguing. If I’m not mistaken Javanese is the most widely-spoken 1st language in Indonesia but Bahasa Indonesia was prefered as the national language when the country became independent, so as not to give an overwhelming advantage to the former on the myriad other languages spoken on the archipelago. Could this be a form of reversal of that philosophy ? The current president of Indonesia is of Javanese descent. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/11 "2023-03-19T12:54:28Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > ETA: maybe I should note that no fewer than three of the countries I’ve lived in have been involved in capital-moving: Please be mindful of where you move next. Certain countries probably can’t stand the additional political strain of being forced to move their capital to suit you. 😉 Seriously, thank you for the insightful post. It’s always cool to have an on-scene reporter with real context on these things. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/12 "2023-03-19T21:51:58Z")
And isn’t Borneo also partly under the control of Brunei? ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/13 "2023-03-20T03:49:21Z")
Yes, you’re correct! Easy to forget (as I did) but nonetheless true. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/14 "2023-03-20T04:32:16Z")
Many years ago, both Canada and Australia built brand new capital cities. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/15 "2023-03-20T04:46:28Z")
Ottawa was already a thriving lumber town when it was decided it would be the new capital city, so not created from scratch like most of the other examples. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/16 "2023-03-20T17:51:48Z")
Also, a good chunk of Borneo is part of Malaysia. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/17 "2023-03-20T18:27:31Z")
I would not understand moving the capital to Kalimantan (the name of the Indonesian part of the island) It is mountainous, remote, has precious little infrastructure and hard to estabish that infrastructure. I’d suggest Bandung, which is in central Java (important for political reasons, Java is the powerhouse) and is already a provincial capital. It is far inland and fairly central (to Java) It does have some issues - Tangkuban Perahu is an active volcano just 30km from town. The alternative would be Yogyakarta which is also central Java, but I would hate that the town with the reputation of being full of “artists” (aka hippies, but not really hippies, drugs are illegal. But guys with long hair is a fairly big deal in a conservative country) become a turgid mess of politicians. It really is a fun place. Of course, it has it’s own active volcano, Mount Merapi. It was erupting when I was there, so I was a bit disappointed not to be able to climb it. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/18 "2023-03-20T22:24:17Z")
The US moved its capital twice. First from Philly to NY, then as now the largest city, then to the mosquito-infested swamp it currently occupies. Not much different today. I once read that the British embassy staff gets tropical duty pay. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/19 "2023-03-20T22:26:37Z")
She did have a wonderful time, and since Yogyakarta was mentioned, she went there. She was offered a choice between a 45-minute flight, or 8 hours on bad roads, and chose the flight. I also have a friend who cannot have coconut (not really an allergy, I don’t think, but she vomits immediately if she eats any) and she would be SOL in a place like that, where coconut is a staple food and a part of almost every meal. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341/20 "2023-03-21T02:31:45Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#): > > Many years ago, both Canada and Australia built brand new capital cities. > [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Ottawa was already a thriving lumber town when it was decided it would be the new capital city, so not created from scratch like most of the other examples. Yes, as Bookkeeper says. It wasn’t a prefab capital. Ottawa was smaller compared to the previous capitals (Quebec, Montreal, Kingston and Toronto), but it was farther away from the perfidious Yankees and thus safer. In addition to the lumber, it also had good strategic value, as a result of the Rideau canal, which made it better than Kingston or York. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indonesia-proposes-moving-capital-from-jakarta-to-a-new-city-in-the-borneo-jungle/981341.md?page=2)