# Indoor toxins may be worse for you than outdoor smog
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [May 19, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036 "2004-05-19T21:03:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/1 "2004-05-19T21:03:37Z")
I’ve always thought that we don’t pay enough attention to indoors pollution. Here’s apparent confirmation.
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Home is where the hazard is
> Indoor toxins may be worse for you than outdoor smog \*\*
> Jane Kay, Chronicle Staff Writer
> Wednesday, May 19, 2004
> ©2004 San Francisco Chronicle
>
> Homes may be hazardous to your health.
>
> Frying chicken at the stove, spraying ants with insecticide, taking a hot shower, plugging in a room freshener, or sudsing the rug with detergent – all these release chemicals that swirl around rooms like invisible dust devils.
>
> Household products, furnishings and cosmetics release vapors and particles that people can inhale or absorb through the skin. Then there are the pollutants that are tracked into the house from outside or allowed to waft through open windows that add to the hazard. Plunking down on a sofa, vacuuming the rug or making the bed stirs up the chemical-laden dust.
>
> All of this sounds like a scary scenario out of a horror movie, or a paranoid’s nightmare of modern industrialized society.
>
> But the nation’s best researchers on indoor air pollution are cautioning consumers that levels in houses are many times higher than those from the outdoors, even when compared to city air where trucks and factories belch pollution. And, they add, they can rise to concentrations that would trigger inspections in the workplace.
>
> "We spend so much time indoors, yet spend so little time thinking about the quality of our indoor air,’’ said Richard Corsi, associate professor in the Texas Institute for the Indoor Environment at the University of Texas in Austin.
>
> "We know a lot more about the effects of occupational exposure to high concentrations of chemicals than we do about the effects of chemicals in our homes,’’ said Corsi, author of dozens of studies on airborne contaminants.
>
> People spend 65 percent of their time in their houses, and 25 percent in some other indoor environment. Transit takes from 5 to 7 percent of the time, and usually less than 5 percent is spent outdoors, studies show.
>
> Yet, scientists are stymied in predicting health effects. They lack studies on the amount of exposure that people actually get and what the exposure may do to people’s health.
>
> [Full article](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/05/19/HOGDC6LU141.DTL)
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### Author:  [@LVgeogeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVgeogeek)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/2 "2004-05-19T21:12:57Z")
For some reason I was expecting to see an endorsement for that ionic air cleaner thing they sell at Sharper Image mentioned in the article
I dont see how taking a shower creates a hazardous air condition 😕
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### Author:  [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/3 "2004-05-19T21:48:03Z")
> [@LVgeogeek](#):
>
> I dont see how taking a shower creates a hazardous air condition 😕
Ummm, did you read the article? It clearly spells out why showers and shower curtains are a possible risk.
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### Author:  [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/4 "2004-05-19T22:13:30Z")
That’s right. Why prevent the beauty and joy that only bacterially laden water can bring to one’s life?
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### Author:  [@LVgeogeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVgeogeek)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/5 "2004-05-19T22:17:26Z")
Yes I did read the article.
> [@](#):
>
> Chlorinated hot water in the kitchen sink, washing machine, dishwasher and the shower can release chloroform, a carcinogen. Emissions increase when people use chlorine bleaches and dishwater detergents containing bleach.
But this would have to come from water that is over chlorinated so much so that it would smell like swimming pool water coming out of your tap. I have never lived or been anywhere that the water was that bad.
The problem with somewhat inflamitory articles like this is that something can be found wrong or harmful with just about everything and anything. Everything we use, whether natural or manmade, releases some sort of gas/smell/chemical/fume/by-product etc. The article even mentions _fruit_ as a source of indoor air contamination.
I do agree that the air inside can get a bit stale, but it is cured by opening a window every now and then and good regular vacuuming/cleaning of the house.
But I do not see it as some impending crisis that this article makes it out to be.
But then again, that is just my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. 🙂
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### Author:  [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/6 "2004-05-20T02:33:15Z")
> [@LVgeogeek](#):
>
> But this would have to come from water that is over chlorinated so much so that it would smell like swimming pool water coming out of your tap. I have never lived or been anywhere that the water was that bad.
On what basis are you making this statement? Have you read something somewhere on the subject of chlorine/chloroform evaporation that you can quote or are you simply expressing your own opinion?
> [@LVgeogeek](#):
>
> The problem with somewhat inflamitory articles like this is that something can be found wrong or harmful with just about everything and anything. Everything we use, whether natural or manmade, releases some sort of gas/smell/chemical/fume/by-product etc. The article even mentions _fruit_ as a source of indoor air contamination.
>
> I do agree that the air inside can get a bit stale, but it is cured by opening a window every now and then and good regular vacuuming/cleaning of the house. But I do not see it as some impending crisis that this article makes it out to be. But then again, that is just my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. 🙂
And I’m not defending everything that is in the article. But information is power. As always, it is up to you, the individual, to make your own choices.
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### Author:  [@kittenlm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenlm)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/7 "2004-05-20T04:29:22Z")
I work for a home inspection company. We have a sister company, that I also work for. It’s an air testing company.
This is crap. Yes there is indoor toxins, but these articles are written **solely** for the purpose of scaring people. Same with toxic mold. Yes, it is dangerous…in about 2% of the cases. **EVERYONE** has mold and indoor air toxins. We always have. And we seem to be doing okay. Yes, some people can have reactions to it. Again, only in about 2% of the population, though.
I get the strangest people calling my company asking for air testing…because it smells like mold, because it smells like soil, because they have a baby, etc. (On a side note: I live at the Jersey Shore - there is \*\*NO SUCH THING \*\* as a house without mold)
Take it with a grain of salt and forget about it. The only time you should worry is if you start to feel dizzy, cough up blood, have severe constant headaches, etc. Otherwise, don’t even let yourself get caught up in this new hysteria. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/8 "2004-05-20T06:38:56Z")
If these things are so bad, why are we still alive?
Don’t we have enough _real_ hazards to worry over?
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### Author:  [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/9 "2004-05-20T08:05:44Z")
> [@picunurse](#):
>
> If these things are so bad, why are we still alive?
> Don’t we have enough _real_ hazards to worry over?
Like what for instance? Please back up your posting with some real data.
I know this isn’t Great Debates but I didn’t think the standards were so low over here. You people spew BS with no backup for anything that has yet been posted. Just because you or people you know don’t have any problems (that you know about), doesn’t mean that no one has any problems. You could do a [Google search on indoor pollution](http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&q=indoor+pollution). You might even learn something!
> [@](#):
>
> More than 60 million people in America have asthma or allergies, costing the U.S. economy over $20 billion each year in hospitalizations, medical services, lost productivity at work or school, and more.
>
> [Asthma & allergies](http://www.aafa.org/)
60 million is 1/5 of the population of the USA. Not a small number at all. Some have theorized that the huge increases in recent years of victims of asthma and allergies is at least partially due to indoor pollution.
And here’s an excerpt from an EPA article on the subject of the effects of indoor pollution.
> [@](#):
>
> Long-term effects
>
> Other health effects may show up either years after exposure has occurred or only after long or repeated periods of exposure. These effects, which include some respiratory diseases, heart disease, and cancer, can be severely debilitating or fatal. It is prudent to try to improve the indoor air quality in your home even if symptoms are not noticeable.
>
> While pollutants commonly found in indoor air are responsible for many harmful effects, there is considerable uncertainty about what concentrations or periods of exposure are necessary to produce specific health problems. People also react very differently to exposure to indoor air pollutants. Further research is needed to better understand which health effects occur after exposure to the average pollutant concentrations found in homes and which occurs from the higher concentrations that occur for short periods of time.
>
> [EPA on indoor air quality](http://www.epa.gov/iaq/ia-intro.html)
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### Author:  [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/10 "2004-05-20T08:09:48Z")
> [@kittenlm](#):
>
> I work for a home inspection company. We have a sister company, that I also work for. It’s an air testing company.
> …
>
> Take it with a grain of salt and forget about it. The only time you should worry is if you start to feel dizzy, cough up blood, have severe constant headaches, etc. Otherwise, don’t even let yourself get caught up in this new hysteria. :rolleyes:
Wow, free doctor’s advice! Yes sir, when you start coughing up blood, you should begin to worry then. :smack: And you got your doctor’s training where? \
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/11 "2004-05-20T10:24:57Z")
Excuse me, I seem to be having a comprehension problem…
You posted a question in the OPINION forum, and now you’r complaining people are posting OPINIONS? If you wanted cite-supported FACTS you should have put this in GQ or GD.
Anyone, my two cents:
Speaking as an allergic/asthmatic, I can state that during high pollen and pollution seasons my symptoms are significantly less indoors. There ARE some skanky indoor environments, but they’re rare.
Part of the problem is that people aren’t aware on a day-to-day basis of all the dust, dander, pollen, mold spores, bacteria, and other junk floating around in the air. You just can’t see it with the naked eye. Truth is, though, we’ve been living in the soup all along. Anyone with a healthy immune system can handle the load, and even some of us who _don’t_ have the best immune system nonetheless manage to exist.
Where indoor pollution gets really problematic is with things like radon gas… but again, that’s not particularly common in most areas.
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### Author:  [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/12 "2004-05-20T10:42:24Z")
Oh come one now.
Damned if I stay indoors: indoor pollution+ couch potato lifestyle.
Damned if I go outside: outdoor pollution+ muggings etc.
Damned if I allow fruit to cross my threshold: possibly more indoor pollution.
Damned if I don’t eat fruit: not eating enough fruit is bad for your health.
Well, seems one might as well live a little and do as one feels like…
P.s. If any one these cause YOU problems because of medical conditions that’s different. Obviously.
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### Author:  [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/13 "2004-05-20T11:00:57Z")
> [@iamme99](#):
>
> Like what for instance? Please back up your posting with some real data.
>
> I know this isn’t Great Debates but I didn’t think the standards were so low over here. You people spew BS with no backup for anything that has yet been posted. Just because you or people you know don’t have any problems (that you know about), doesn’t mean that no one has any problems. You could do a [Google search on indoor pollution](http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&q=indoor+pollution). You might even learn something!
I could but since I already know that not chlorinating drinking water can lead to a situation like Walkerton Ontario where
> [@](#):
>
> the chlorination plant either broke down and did not inject chlorine at the required level or it had been faulty for some. Levels of chlorine in the drinking water are supposed to be at or above 0.5 ppm. Documented cases are in the log books for the wells where these criteria were not met. In addition, many reading over a long period of time were stated to be at either “0.5” or “0.7” ppm - an unlikely coincidence for all levels to be essentially identical over a long period of sampling.
This failure to chlorinate the water supply lead to the following results, financially speaking.
> [@](#):
>
> A 60-page study released in November, 2001 concluded that the Walkerton water tragedy cost at least $64.5 million and an estimated $155 million, if human suffering was factored in. Each household in the town of 5,000 spent about $4,000 on average as a result of the contamination, for a total of $6.9 million. The study weighed in the costs and benefits of providing safe drinking water.
2000 people were directly affected at a cost of $64 million. Why not expand that to cover the 280 million in the US? The cost would reach $8.9 trillion. Which does seem remarkably high doesn’t it. Cut it by two orders of magnitude then. $89 billion in costs due to the economy not counting the deaths that would inevitably follow. Your own financial impact to allergens and asthma (both lacking an exclusive direct link to indoor pollutants) only comes in around $20 billion.
> [@iamme99](#):
>
> I know this isn’t Great Debates but I didn’t think the standards were so low over here.
In My Humble Opinion that statement is remarkably judgemental and stupid.
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### Author:  [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/14 "2004-05-20T11:05:35Z")
> [@iamme99](#):
>
> People spend 65 percent of their time in their houses, and 25 percent in some other indoor environment. Transit takes from 5 to 7 percent of the time, and usually less than 5 percent is spent outdoors, studies show.
What?
65% of time at home = 15.6 hours, leaving 8.4 hours outside the house. Subtracting the 5-7% of the day spent in transit (alleged in the article), we’re left with only 6.96 hours.
_6.96 hours_ a day for work, shopping, visiting, sport, walking outdoors, running errands, outside entertainment…
Sounds like a rigorously researched article to me. :dubious:
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### Author:  [@hlanelee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hlanelee)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/15 "2004-05-20T12:23:33Z")
Beware of **Stachybotrys** , its the most dangerous thing since asbestos. That’s why I don’t fix air conditioners any more.
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### Author:  [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/16 "2004-05-20T15:54:06Z")
_Looks down at feet, pokes left hand, pinches cheek_
Yup… I’m still alive. When I get diagnosed with brain cancer due to the chemical makeup of my carpet I’ll post my concerns on indoor air polution.
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### Author:  [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/17 "2004-05-20T16:22:00Z")
> [@clayton\_e](#):
>
> _Looks down at feet, pokes left hand, pinches cheek_
>
> Yup… I’m still alive. When I get diagnosed with brain cancer due to the chemical makeup of my carpet I’ll post my concerns on indoor air polution.
Well, if anyone wants to, I can start a thread entitled, “Ask the guy whose had to deal with this environmentally friendly bullshit as a contractor.”
I won’t post a lengthy rant on VOCs and etc. unless someone asks though.
Basically, through programs such as [LEED](http://www.usgbc.org/LEED/LEED_main.asp), there’s some scare mongering going on.
As one of those goofy alternative medicine types, I’ve done some research (coming from the tinfoil hat aisle), so I can discuss from that perspective too.
Basically: yes, your paint/carpet/mattress/everything else is off-gassing shit that’s theoretically bad for you. Yes, you’re inhaling the equivalent of 20 drunken gallons of chlorine every time you take a shower (that didn’t come out right…), yes, most of the items that you have in your house are carcinogenic and tetragenic (if they’re even tested), but the research done to determine the effects of these on the human body (ones I’ve read, sorry no links) are inconclusive.
Yes, it’s much nicer working in a building with lots of plants, low-VOC paints, natural lighting, but the justification is really largley “fuzzy.”
Remember everyone, mold is the new asbestos.
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### Author:  [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/18 "2004-05-20T16:47:56Z")
> [@iamme99](#):
>
> Wow, free doctor’s advice! Yes sir, when you start coughing up blood, you should begin to worry then. :smack: And you got your doctor’s training where? \
At Common Sense University would be my guess.
I’d have to believe that what **kittenlm** is saying is “don’t get in a tizzy over something that is thinly disguised advertising literature unless you have _actual symptoms_”.
As for me, I’ve always live by one firm rule: _Every single thing in the world_ can kill you. If you spend all your time worrying about that fact, you may as well let it finish the job already.
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### Author:  [@AllShookDown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllShookDown)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/19 "2004-05-20T21:53:25Z")
I’ve been wondering if this is going to be the next thing people are going to start suing their building contractors (or someone else…I’m sure they’ll think of somebody to sue for it) for.
I was talking to our reserving manager today and she says that mold claims in Minnesota are way out of line compared to the rest of the region because Minnesota building code is so strict (because of energy efficiency) that it makes the conditions ripe for mold. I can see the same thing happening with this “indoor pollution” BS once the media really gets ahold of it.
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### Author:  [@kittenlm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenlm)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indoor-toxins-may-be-worse-for-you-than-outdoor-smog/246036/20 "2004-05-20T22:51:34Z")
> [@AllShookDown](#):
>
> I was talking to our reserving manager today and she says that mold claims in Minnesota are way out of line compared to the rest of the region because Minnesota building code is so strict (because of energy efficiency) that it makes the conditions ripe for mold. I can see the same thing happening with this “indoor pollution” BS once the media really gets ahold of it.
Unfortunately, that is exactly what’s going to happen. Mold problems have been blown completely out of porportion for several reasons:
1. There is no standards. There is no: this many spores is okay and this many spores is not okay. So people hear the word mold and go crazy…due to reason #2.
2. The media. They have hyped mold as such a terrible thing that now everyone and their mother wants their houses tested. NEWSFLASH: You will have mold! And guess what, you always have. It floats around in the air outside…open your door to go in or out, you let mold spores in the house. Open a window…you let mold spores in the house.
And as you said, **AllShookDown** , indoor air pollution is the next hyped up media craze. Unfortunately, unless you plan to spend the rest of your life in a bubble, you are just going to have to deal with it.
> [@Hal Briston](#):
>
> At Common Sense University would be my guess.
>
> I’d have to believe that what kittenlm is saying is “don’t get in a tizzy over something that is thinly disguised advertising literature unless you have actual symptoms”.
Thank you, **Hal**! Maybe I didn’t put it the right way, but that is exactly what I was trying to say. People are spending thousands and thousands of dollars to remediate mold when there isn’t really even a problem. And unless you have mold growing somewhere, an air test coming up with allergenic mold is normal. But, people are still writing checks for $15,000 to a company to flush their house with fresh air. So, unless your air test comes up as Stachybotris, relax. Pennicillium is allergenic…it’s everywhere…including outside. You can’t get away from it. And it’s the same thing with indoor air pollutions…you can’t get away from them. They are there. That’s it.
We’ve all seen the news talk about people having to burn their houses down b/c of mold. Yeah…but what they don’t tell you is that the house had a leaky roof and flooded. Mold doesn’t grow for no reason…there has to be moisture. I guess I am just tired of the media hyping things that make the public so crazy…without any real reason.
Oh, and some of this fact (from my job) and some of it is my opinion, is that okay with you, **iamme99**?
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