# Indy drivers whine about Danica Patrick because of her weight **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947 "2005-05-29T02:14:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/61 "2005-05-29T21:15:59Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Blue Sky] It’s the way he deilvered his message. [QUOTE] Thanks for the clarification on when shooting the messenger is justified. Pit his “I won’t race against her” comment, not the weight advantage. I agree the former was a pussy comment. DP (_love_ those intials) looked a little squirrely out there, but I attribute that solely to her rookie status. Sex has apparently no affect whatsoever on the sport. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/62 "2005-05-29T21:21:58Z")
I think she drove well. One rookie mistake and one dumb mistake, from both of which she recovered quite nicely. She lucked into the lead, but then held it as long as she could have under the circumstances. All in all, a damn fine performance. I’d expect great things from her in the future. And I second the “I’d like to see her in a NASCAR race” comment. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/63 "2005-05-29T21:29:09Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Thanks for the clarification on when shooting the messenger is justified. His “I won’t race” comment negated any serious point he was trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/64 "2005-05-29T21:34:23Z")
> [@Madd Maxx](#): > > I would love to see her drive a couple of NASCAR events when they IRL schedule allows. That would be sure to drive those rednecks nuts. You know what I’d love to see? I’d love to see a thread about auto racing on the SDMB that doesn’t include the inevitable drive-by posts about rednecks, wife-beaters, hillbillys, and other slurs. That’d be nice. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/65 "2005-05-29T21:42:56Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > You know what I’d love to see? I’d love to see a thread about auto racing on the SDMB that doesn’t include the inevitable drive-by posts about rednecks, wife-beaters, hillbillys, and other slurs. That’d be nice. I agree. It’s nice to have a dream, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/66 "2005-05-30T03:06:47Z")
Just thought I had to comment on this (if somewhat belatedly). Okay, here’s a good summary of how Ms Patrick did: > **[Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines](https://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=%2Fap%2F20050529%2Fap_on_sp_au_ra_ra_su%2Fcar_irl_indy500_23)** > > The latest news and headlines from Yahoo! News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos. … and congratulations Danica !!! Well I looked up Robby Gordon’s age - he’s 36. Damn it, there goes that young hussy Danica Patrick taking another unfair advantage of Mr Gordon. She’s 13 years his junior and so her reflexes would be accordingly sharper, quicker, etc. I think neurological studies should be done on each driver before race time and the drivers’ racing times should be adjusted accordingly whereby the young whippersnappers could be penalized for their unfair youth advantage. Others have said that Mr Gordon may have a legitimate point about possible weight advantages. Yes, that _may_ be true considering NASCAR does take this into account. However, I find it _ **highly suspicious** _ that Robby Gordon (who’s been racing for 15 years), decided to express his “outrage” after 15 fucking years !!! :mad: Somewhat off-topic, but this reminds me about a story concerning the punk rock group **the Plasmatics**. In 1980, there were to appear in a city and the residents were outraged because (among otehr things) their lead singer Wendy Williams was somewhat of an exhibitionist shall we say? Finally, someone found an obscure zoning law (or maybe fire law) that would have applied to _any_ group that had appeared there before or after. Wow, what a lucky break they found that law right before the Plasmatics came to town thus protecting the city’s residents as well as the Plasmatics of course. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/67 "2005-05-30T03:09:22Z")
Well, Gordon finished some 20-odd places out tonight in the Coca-Cola 600. I guess you’d better get out the scales, Robby. Obviously, you lost because the other 20-some-odd drivers had a weight advantage on you. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/68 "2005-05-30T04:00:18Z")
> [@Madd Maxx](#): > > Remember, she’s still a rookie. I can’t wait to see how she will do the rest of the year and next year @ Indy. Her couple of rookie mistakes this year may have cost her, but she will learn from them and be that much better for it. And better than 4th place means either win, place or show. I would love to see her drive a couple of NASCAR events when they IRL schedule allows. That would be sure to drive those rednecks nuts. Hey jerk…There have been women drivers in NASCAR. The “rednecks” accepted them with no problem. Google Shawna Robinson. I reiterate… Jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/69 "2005-05-30T04:17:06Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Way to shoot the messenger with this thread, btw. Regardless of how whiney you read his comments to be, his point is a legitimate one. Also, as to the sentiment: “Why no complaints about a 50 pound difference, but now all of a sudden 100 pounds is too much?” Um, yeah, that’s double the advantage. Here’s the point, as I understand it: 1. Plenty of drivers have a 50-pound advantage over him. Is that unfair? 2. The only advantage she has over these drivers is a 50-pound advantage. Is that unfair? 3. If the plenty-driver advantage over Gordon is fair, and if Danica’s advantage over the other drivers is fair, then the only unfair advantage is the one that Danica has specifically over Gordon. And in that case, he may equally be whining about the fact that his own fat ass gives him an unfair **disadvantage**. It’s not Danica vs. Indy; it’s Danica vs. Gordon. And if he’s got a problem with his weight, well, that’s his problem, not hers. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/70 "2005-05-30T04:18:08Z")
It’s already been established that the guy had a valid point that the weight disparity was a problem. He probably hadn’t mentioned it till now because most men are within a certain acceptable weight range. She is not the first women to race and she will not be the last. No new ground was broken, she is nothing special. Wake me up when she starts _winning_ races. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/71 "2005-05-30T04:19:34Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > It’s already been established that the guy had a valid point that the weight disparity was a problem. Problem for **him** , not for most folks. He’s an outlier on the field, and she’s an outlier on the field, and it’s presumptuous, sniveling, and grossly unsportsmanlike for her to insist that she be handicapped specifically to make the race easier for him. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/72 "2005-05-30T04:29:53Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > It’s not Danica vs. Indy; it’s Danica vs. Gordon. And if he’s got a problem with his weight, well, that’s his problem, not hers. It’s a problem that he could solve by cutting off his fat head. Probably. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/73 "2005-05-30T04:36:35Z")
What a dumbshit the whiner is. Or a whiner the dumbshit is. Diogenes had it right on Page 1 when he posted this: > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Somebody should take a look at Shaquille O’Neal. He clearly has a significant height and weight advantage over many other players in the NBA. No fair, no fair. …and of course I haven’t seen Gordon standing up for the 200+ pound males who are so at a disadvantage from the 150 pound males. Where’s the justice in that? Quick, someone call People’s Poet! We MUST fight these crimes against the sport perpetrated by small females! I guess sometimes a self-important crybaby really is just a self-important crybaby. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/74 "2005-05-30T05:26:33Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Problem for **him** , not for most folks. He’s an outlier on the field, and she’s an outlier on the field Damn fine point. I can’t argue with you there. > [@Una Persson](#): > > Diogenes had it right on Page 1 when he posted this No, he didn’t, but I forgot about it after reading the rest of the thread. Now that you bring it back up, I feel compelled to respond. Shaq, like all basketball players, is powered only by his own body when he competes in his sport. Drivers and riders are powered by cars and horses, so weight is a factor. Since you can’t tinker with a horse’s parts, there are no large jockeys. (And quite a few eating disorders to boot.) But with cars, you have control over the weight of your conveyance. And cars, like horses, perform better/worse when carrying more/less weight. Given equal skill, luck, horsepower, and handling, a lighter vehicle will beat a heavier one every single time; that’s just the nature of physics. No such claim can be made about basketball players. (“Given equal skill, speed, strength, and agility, a bigger player will beat a smaller player every single time; that’s just the nature of physics” is a patently untrue statement.) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/75 "2005-05-30T05:31:56Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > …and of course I haven’t seen Gordon standing up for the 200+ pound males who are so at a disadvantage from the 150 pound males. That’s the thing that makes him look like such an asshole. While I suppose it’s _possible_ that he has made similar arguments about the little guys in the past, I seriously doubt it. I played devil’s advocate here to the best of my ability, but the only conclusion I can come up with is that he’s a bitter good ol’ boy who doesn’t want his sport girlied up. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/76 "2005-05-30T10:49:01Z")
> [@Madd Maxx](#): > > And better than 4th place means either win, place or show. I would love to see her drive a couple of NASCAR events when they IRL schedule allows. That would be sure to drive those rednecks nuts. As someone who has married into a “redneck” family, I can truthfully state that rednecks can be surprisingly supportive and approving of strong women who excel what are traditionally male pursuits. I have not found the percentage of unreformed, insecure male assholes to be higher, just that their UIMA’s tend to be more blunt and vocal about their opinions. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/77 "2005-05-30T12:49:04Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Drivers and riders are powered by cars and horses, so weight is a factor. Since you can’t tinker with a horse’s parts, there are no large jockeys. (And quite a few eating disorders to boot.) [nitpick] Some jockeys in fact will be lower than the weight assigned to their horses, but they don’t get to ride with that advantage. Instead they have thin plates of lead added to pockets in their (thin tiny) saddles. Jockeys have to weigh in carrying their saddles before a race and again after, to make sure they didn’t find a way to ditch the weight before the race. The eating disorders problem is [widespread and severe](http://horseracing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072500a.htm). In harness racing weight isn’t that kind of factor, and the drivers can be any weight they choose so long as they can haul it into the sulky that the horse pulls. The [design of the sulky makes the difference here](http://www.rjwalsh.com.au/t-weight.html), in terms of where it puts that weight in relation to the horse. > [@](#): > > 1. A horse’s energetic cost of locomotion (how much energy the horse must expend to move) is proportional to THE WEIGHT ON HIS HOOVES. Increase that weight (add a jockey; fat on the horse) and you slow the horse, REDUCE that weight (no jockey; lean animal) and you allow the horse to go faster. > > 2. By altering the location of the driver’s centre of gravity in relation to the fulcrum point of a sulky (the axles) it is possible to either INCREASE the weight on the horse’s hooves (by putting weight DOWN on the shafts) or REDUCE the weight on the horse’s hooves (by putting the driver’s CG well behind the axles so that the sulky tends to flip over backwards if not attached to the horse - known as ‘negative balance’). > > 3. NEGATIVE BALANCE reduces the weight on a horse’s hooves, neutral balance has no effect, and positive balance increases the weight on the horse’s hooves. Thus NEGATIVE BALANCE increases speed, neutral or positive balance reduces speed by comparison. > > [snip] > > 1. All other things being equal, and the bike producing negative balance, the greater the driver’s weight, the greater will be the weight reduction on the horse’s hooves and the LESS will be the horse’s energetic cost of locomotion. Of course all other things are NOT equal, the most important of which is the rolling friction of the sulky, which is proportional to the weight on the wheels of the sulky, and therefore increases with driver weight and with the degree of negative balance. But when you do the maths it turns out that offseting the REDUCED horse energy requirement resulting from negative balance against INCREASED rolling resistance from driver weight, results in about a one percent penalty (in terms of the horse’s energetic cost of locomotion) for DOUBLING of driver weight. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/78 "2005-05-30T12:53:23Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Shaq, like all basketball players, is powered only by his own body when he competes in his sport. Drivers and riders are powered by cars and horses, so weight is a factor. Since you can’t tinker with a horse’s parts, there are no large jockeys. (And quite a few eating disorders to boot.) But with cars, you have control over the weight of your conveyance. And cars, like horses, perform better/worse when carrying more/less weight. > > Given equal skill, luck, horsepower, and handling, a lighter vehicle will beat a heavier one every single time; that’s just the nature of physics. No such claim can be made about basketball players. (“Given equal skill, speed, strength, and agility, a bigger player will beat a smaller player every single time; that’s just the nature of physics” is a patently untrue statement.) I’ll hazard that I’m very familiar with physics already, as well as automotive dynamics. Just like I’m aware that the “top speed difference” is being misused[sup]1[/sup], but I haven’t bothered to post about it because no one gives a shit about nitpicking that much. If you want to talk down to _me_ about physics and automotive engineering then you’re really going to be wasting your time. None of which matters. The point of my post was clear: - Shaq follows the rules of the sport. He is not violating them by the act of playing. - Danica is following the rules of the sport. She is not violating them by the act of playing. - Shaq’s advantage is not one he controls, unless he deliberately sandbags himself. - Danica’s advantage is not one she controls, unless she deliberately sandbags herself. And then we can make the counter-argument that her small size and almost certainly lesser strength could be disadvantges while driving too. These cars aren’t exactly luxurious, and the race does require a lot of endurance. Should Gordon be penalized for being a testosterone-laden he-man with mighteous muscles? What are we getting into here with this sort of nitpicking - Harrison Bergeron racing teams? The guy and his statements are indefensible. Sometimes, even on the SDMB, people just have to agree that some things just are wrong. 1. By “top speed” they must be meaning “top average speed over a lap” or something, because when you’re looking at the top speed of a vehicle, the weight really doesn’t come into it, given that you have enough time to accelerate. The things that do matter are: - Maximum power available for use - Synchronization of gearing with the power curve - C[sub]D[/sub] - Front end area - Rolling resistance, including bearing drag Gosh, I guess one can argue that the slight weight difference makes a tiny difference in rolling resistance due to greater tire deformation and more bearing drag, but come on, I doubt that could be reliably and repeatably measured. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/79 "2005-05-30T16:28:15Z")
I wasn’t trying to be rude to you, Ellis, but I probably was, and I apologize for my poor wording. I wasn’t trying to be as confrontational as that sounded, even if it is “the Pit”. :o ---
**Author:** ![Boggette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@Boggette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boggette)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947/80 "2005-05-30T17:19:43Z")
“As someone who has married into a “redneck” family, I can truthfully state that rednecks can be surprisingly supportive and approving of strong women who excel what are traditionally male pursuits.” * * * Yes! They showed a shot of the crowd when she got the lead (not the one under caution, but the one during green flag) and people in the stands were all on their feet cheering her on! This included the guys with beards down to their navels with no shirt on, beer in hand. Amazing race. As for Robbie Gordon, he’s got a huge bug up his ass because he can’t seem to get anything done on his own in NASCAR. He has his own team now (got kicked by his last one) and can’t even qualify for all the races. I wish he’d not make more races so we don’t have to hear his bitching. This whole article makes me wonder why the heck they’d ever want HIS opinion in the first place. I mean, there are legitimate GOOD drivers out there to interview. This was a truly amazing race. Certainly one for the history books. The only information I’d like to know is where she sits in their points race. Has she got a chance at the title? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/indy-drivers-whine-about-danica-patrick-because-of-her-weight/305947.md?page=5)