# Inexperienced Generals and Admirals? Q about military pay... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 9, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inexperienced-generals-and-admirals-q-about-military-pay/283949 "2005-01-09T23:54:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inexperienced-generals-and-admirals-q-about-military-pay/283949/21 "2005-01-12T07:16:52Z")
> [@pilot141](#): > > OK, I know it’s from earlier in the thread but I’d just like to clarify this if I can. > > There are different types of wings in the AF…your basic “slick” set that you get upon graduation from flight school, the “senior pilot” one with a star and the “command pilot” ones with a wreath surrounding the star. They have everything to do with your overall experience but nothing to do with your responsibility for the flight. > > Things change of course, and things might have been different in WWII than they are today. But the way things work now is…the designated Aircraft Commander is responsible for the safe conduct of the flight…period. > > As an example…back when I was a young Captain flying my beloved [C-141](http://www.amarc.dk/billeder/Gallery/Others/_USA/C-141.jpg) I got called to fly a mission to Kinshasa, Zaire (this was in 1997, when Kinshasa fell). We were taking a team to coordinate evacuation/relief efforts, and the team chief was an O-6/Colonel KC-135 Wing Commander. He was a Colonel with Command pilot wings, but I was the designated Aircraft Commander. When push came to shove (and it did over the Atlantic Ocean) I was the boss, and the Colonel (a credit to his professionalism) knew it. I signed for the aircraft, and I was responsible for it’s safe operation - he was just a passenger. Besides, he was a KC-135 guy and knew nothing about the C-141. > > In today’s Air Force someone with Command pilot wings can’t just barge into the cockpit and take over- the Aircraft Commander is designated before the flight, and he/she is the final authority for that flight. > > [End hijack, while I bow down to **David Simmon** ’s amazing military structure knowledge.] If that’s the way it is now great, that’s the way it should always have been. However, in WWII the guy with the Command Pilot wings was _always_ the aircraft commander by default. And, by the way, Command Pilot wings were rare. I never saw anyone with them except in pictures and I don’t think anyone with less than command of, say, the Bombardment Division or the Fighter Command of an Air Force like the 8th or 9th or even above that level had them. Nobody in our group even came close to having them, nor as I recall, did the Wing Commander. Of course, 60 years ago there was a lot less historical time in which people could have accumulated the time required for even Senior Pilot wings. The guy with 1000 hours was way up there. I’m not kidding. During the 30’s the military was so strapped for money that people really didn’t get all that much flying time. Even during the war time didn’t accumulate all that fist. A tour of duty in B-26’s in the 9th AF was 65 missions. At four hours/mission, which was typical, you got roughly 260-280 hours during a tour. In the 1940’s flying was still pretty new. You have to remember that General Hap Arnold, AF Commander in WWII was taught to fly by the Wright brothers. ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inexperienced-generals-and-admirals-q-about-military-pay/283949/22 "2005-01-12T07:39:22Z")
Yep, I figured it was something like that…in WWII Command Pilot wings actually meant you commanded something, rather than just met some flight hour/years flying gate. Nowadays you get Senior pilot after 7 years of rated flying (ie after flight school) and a minimum of 1500 hours; Command pilot comes with 13 years of flying (no hours requirement). ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inexperienced-generals-and-admirals-q-about-military-pay/283949/23 "2005-01-12T16:14:57Z")
Here’s a totally speculative thought that came into my head. I believe that in addition to the regular federal military/reserve/national guard structure, each state has an Adjutant General appointed by the governor to command that state’s national guard (when it is in state and not federal service). I think that the state Adjutant Generals are of brigagier general or major general rank, and that the appointments are pure state appointments outside of the regular military structure. I would guess that is possible for a state governor to appoint an Adjutant General without prior military experience, and that officer’s pay would be based on the federal tables. Perhaps the reason for the entries for O-7 and O-8 are to cover this eventuallity. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inexperienced-generals-and-admirals-q-about-military-pay/283949/24 "2005-01-12T16:48:14Z")
I knew a man in the Marines in Vietnam who was a E-2 PFC in January 1969 and an E-6 Staff Sgt. in mid 1970. Another friend ran into him in mid 1971 at Camp Pendleton California and he told him that they had offered him E-7 Gunnery Sgt. if he’d re-enlist. But he wasn’t going to because the Marine Corps’ involvement in Vietnam was down to about 0 by then and they wouldn’t send him back. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inexperienced-generals-and-admirals-q-about-military-pay/283949.md?page=1)