# Infant genetal mutilation is a blood sacrifice to the demon Yahwe. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321 "2018-11-10T20:59:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/201 "2018-11-14T17:51:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I have heard it said that circumcision results in desensitizing the “German helmet”. Which results in a longer time frame for the actual boinking, the space between arousal and the uncurling of the toes. I have it on reliable authority that many women prefer this. I think many men would volunteer such an accommodation, as we are generous and thoughtful. Especially if there were an easy way to bring it up in polite conversation. > > She was only a banker’s daughter, but there was a substantial penalty for early withdrawal… You have an extremely optimistic opinion about the selflessness of men regarding the wishes of their partners. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/202 "2018-11-14T18:37:09Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > To help clarify IMHO In the modern “christian” world the main effect of the scriptural acceptance of the practice is that the procedure is not held to the same standard for other medically unnecessary operations that remove healthy tissue. > > There is a cultural bias that is justified through the stories of the Old Testament which allows for this completely medically unnecessary operation to be considered as an advantageous cure vs. an unnecessary risk. > > The true impact of complications is very difficult to ascertain due to limitations of record keeping and without the social-bias produced by the enthusiastic embarrassing of that biblical accounts does directly relate to how common the practice is. > > The fact that it was often justified to prevent masturbation, which is directly connected to some christian interpretations also relates it to religion. > > To claim that it is not is special pleading especially when the common claim is that it is a Muslim or Jewish religious practice when that is only true for the latter. The discussion on if this is _required_ as a part of the covenant does not need to apply for this side effect. > > If someone is going to argue that my point that having a god that celebrates circumcision and actually required it as a tribute in an earlier revision doesn’t have these impacts I would be willing to debate that part but it is not dependent on it still being required to be partially based in religous beliefs. It sounds to me like you’re simply conjecturing. We know that in the past Christian groups have condemned circumcision and we know that the rise of popularity of circumcision in Anglophone countries was due to its association with hygiene and what was presumed to be scientific studies that ‘proved’ its efficacy combined with the US military forcing adult recruits to undergo it to stop the spread of venereal disease. We know that it maintained its ascendancy in the US largely because of ‘cadillac insurance’ plans in the post-war era that incentivized doctors recommending a cheap, relatively easy surgery that was compensated fairly richly by those plans. The existence of circumcision in the US is really all about the failure of private pay healthcare rather than some convoluted idea that Christians in the 50s somehow wanted to become more Jewish to appease God or didn’t look into it closely enough because of God. The Brits in the 50s were just as religious as Americans, but their healthcare didn’t incentivize circumcisions, so the rates at which they were performed dropped. Trying to drag Christianity into the circumcision debate is ludicrous. It’s finding a villain and then figuring out why they are villainous. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/203 "2018-11-14T18:50:34Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > My only regret is that the medical community as a whole should have come down against the procedure being done without decent reason or adequate informed consent (from the parents) sooner and stronger. Informed consent is a major issue. Even if you believe it’s a legitimate exercise of parental/medical authority, it seems to me that parents aren’t being fully informed as to the risks/benefits. They aren’t being told that there’s a controversy over whether the foreskin is a vestigial or vital organ. Since we live in a culture where circumcision is common (with rates as high as 90% in the 1970s) Many parents don’t know what a foreskin really is. They’ve never seen one, or had any experience with one. If the foreskin arguably does have some value above zero, and plays a positive role in human sexuality, according to many European medical authorities, why aren’t parents informed about this? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/204 "2018-11-14T19:12:12Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Here’s what [Maimonides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides), one of the most influential and well respected scholars of Jewish law and philosophy had to say about [circumcision](http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/maimonides/) in his work THE GUIDE OF THE PERPLEXED: He may have been a “well respected scholar of Jewish law and philosophy”, but he wasn’t much of a scientist. Contrary to “quieting the organ”, circumcision seems to make it more sensitive to stimulation. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/205 "2018-11-14T20:44:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Oh yeah, clitoridectomy was definitely used as an anti-masturbation “remedy” in the US as well in the 19th century. [Article](https://academic.oup.com/jhmas/article/63/3/323/816601). > > What I don’t know is why it didn’t become a very common “preventive” measure in European/American societies as male circumcision did, rather than remaining a specifically “therapeutic” practice to treat women identified as having sexual problems. Seat-of-the-pants guess: it didn’t occur to male doctors that quote-unquote “healthy” women would masturbate. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/206 "2018-11-14T20:53:51Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > It sounds to me like you’re simply conjecturing. We know that in the past Christian groups have condemned circumcision and we know that the rise of popularity of circumcision in Anglophone countries was due to its association with hygiene and what was presumed to be scientific studies that ‘proved’ its efficacy combined with the US military forcing adult recruits to undergo it to stop the spread of venereal disease. We know that it maintained its ascendancy in the US largely because of ‘cadillac insurance’ plans in the post-war era that incentivized doctors recommending a cheap, relatively easy surgery that was compensated fairly richly by those plans. The existence of circumcision in the US is really all about the failure of private pay healthcare rather than some convoluted idea that Christians in the 50s somehow wanted to become more Jewish to appease God or didn’t look into it closely enough because of God. The Brits in the 50s were just as religious as Americans, but their healthcare didn’t incentivize circumcisions, so the rates at which they were performed dropped. Trying to drag Christianity into the circumcision debate is ludicrous. It’s finding a villain and then figuring out why they are villainous. You are taking this as a personal attack, and I didn’t use “Christian” because beliefs differ so greatly to make it an almost meaningless category. Many American Christians do unwittingly think this circumcision is the same as the circumcision rite mentioned in the Old Testament. Heck even in the case of Jewish people, Genesis 17:11 was interpreted to only remove the _orlah_ which didn’t expose the entire gland. It was only after movements to de-circumcise _after the time of Jesus_ that it was extended to remove the _peri’ah_. Here is a medical like drawing to illustrate the differences. [https://www.littleimages.org/drawing-ot-milah-circumcision-vs-modern-periah/](https://www.littleimages.org/drawing-ot-milah-circumcision-vs-modern-periah/) Most US Christian denominations are neutral about male circumcision today, and almost all seem to think that _peri’ah_ is biblical circumcision. Again, no major medical organization in the world recommends infant circumcision and in most of the English speaking world the anti-masturbation fads of the 1800’s went away well over 50 years ago. Well except those who ignore the HIV risk differences depending on transmission means. The Victorian obsession with Spermatorrhea as a moral disease is well documented [https://www.jstor.org/stable/24632197?seq=1#page\_scan\_tab\_contents](https://www.jstor.org/stable/24632197?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) As you want to claim that the Christian religion had _nothing_ to do with the rise of circumcision how about you explain what morality they were using to justify the procedure? By what non-religious means to you justify the fear of spermatorrhea and the acceptance of circumcision as a valid medical intervention in the late nineteenth century? ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/207 "2018-11-14T21:31:56Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > As you want to claim that the Christian religion had _nothing_ to do with the rise of circumcision how about you explain what morality they were using to justify the procedure? > > By what non-religious means to you justify the fear of spermatorrhea and the acceptance of circumcision as a valid medical intervention in the late nineteenth century? OK, if you want to get into the history of it. The first major circumcision advocate was a guy named Peter Remondino who was writing in the 1890s. You can actually read his book at Project Gutenberg ([The Project Gutenberg eBook of History of Circumcision from the Earliest Times to the Present, by P. C. Remondino, M.D.](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/23135/23135-h/23135-h.htm#Page_161)) - the 161 page is bookmarked because that’s where he goes into why we should circumcise. He begins the chapter by saying that Christians don’t circumcise and they are idiots for it. He then goes into great lengths explaining that Jews live longer than Christians and then attempts to explain away other environmental factors and lands on the fact that circumcision prevents syphillis and tuberculosis. He feels that it’s a vestigial gland that evolution left behind and leads to cancer among other things. He thinks that it failed to evolve properly so that humans should remove it to better allow the functioning of the penis. So, the ‘acceptance’ of it was not based on ‘Let’s get back to Yahweh’ religion, but rather a misinterpretation of evolutionary biology. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/208 "2018-11-14T21:34:42Z")
As an aside, I don’t take this as a personal attack on Christianity at all. I take it as trying to draw in a majority religion in order to justify oppression of a minority one. By saying, “Hey, I’m not against Jews and Muslims, I’m against Christianity as well, so not prejudiced.” it takes the focus off of the real victims of this Crusade by hiding it behind anti-Christian rhetoric which is more socially acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Trafalgar\_Laura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trafalgar_laura/32/2907_2.png) [@Trafalgar\_Laura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trafalgar_Laura)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/209 "2018-11-14T22:27:23Z")
I think it’s unfortunate that it’s difficult to have this conversation, since I do think it’s conversation worth having, simply for the reason that involves babies and also surgery on genitals, and those are two serious subjects. But I can understand being opposed to the conversation, as well, because it is indeed often just a cover for anti-Semetic beliefs. And I also seem to recall that there have been times in history where circumcision has been banned as an open effort to eliminate Jewish religious and cultural identity. While I still find that I can’t support circumcision, I’ve been educated in this thread as to just how seriously it is taken by many Jewish communities. I somehow doubt this issue is going to be resolved in this generation, and I do fervently hope it isn’t resolved by forcing mass groups of Jewish people to stop against their will or hide it. Perhaps I’m just dreaming when I hope that, in a few generations, enough Jewish parents will find it iffy that they will not feel they must do it in order to pass on their cultural identity to their child. Well, even the form of circumcision used now is a change from that used in the past… “desert demon Yahwe” is definitely not a productive start to a discussion, either, even if I feel the discussion has evolved past that. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/210 "2018-11-14T22:32:24Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Informed consent is a major issue. Even if you believe it’s a legitimate exercise of parental/medical authority, it seems to me that parents aren’t being fully informed as to the risks/benefits. They aren’t being told that there’s a controversy over whether the foreskin is a vestigial or vital organ. Since we live in a culture where circumcision is common (with rates as high as 90% in the 1970s) Many parents don’t know what a foreskin really is. They’ve never seen one, or had any experience with one. > > If the foreskin arguably does have some value above zero, and plays a positive role in human sexuality, according to many European medical authorities, why aren’t parents informed about this? Well going from rates as high as 90% in the 70s to rates arpund the 50% mark today (at least according to the sources ive read) implies to me that perhaps parents _are_ more informed today than in decades past. Societal change (usually) progresses frustratingly slow. But we seem to be moving continously in the direction of being against pointless (and potentially harmful) circumcision. 80% of males currently alive in the U.S. may be cut but only ~50% of infants undergo the procedure today. Progress. ---
**Author:** ![Trafalgar\_Laura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trafalgar_laura/32/2907_2.png) [@Trafalgar\_Laura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trafalgar_Laura)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/211 "2018-11-14T22:45:23Z")
I might support a ban on it for strictly cosmetic or dubious/potential-based medical reasons. I suspect a minority of circumcisions are actually for religious/cultural reasons in the United States, still. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/212 "2018-11-14T23:00:35Z")
> [@Trafalgar\_Laura](#): > > I might support a ban on it for strictly cosmetic or dubious/potential-based medical reasons. We’re still talking specifically about infant/minor circumcisions, though, right? Because personally, I would be vehemently opposed to any kind of ban on **adult** males voluntarily getting circumcised, whether for some nearly-negligible medical benefit, aesthetic reasons, religious reasons, or any other reason. Circumcision, like facelifts or piercings or any other form of medically unnecessary minor body modification, should be legal for any consenting adult to procure. It’s only the circumcising of minor children without medical necessity that I think the anti-circ people have any justification whatever for opposing on human-rights grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/213 "2018-11-14T23:06:57Z")
> [@Trafalgar\_Laura](#): > > .While I still find that I can’t support circumcision, I’ve been educated in this thread as to just how seriously it is taken by many Jewish communities. I somehow doubt this issue is going to be resolved in this generation, and I do fervently hope it isn’t resolved by forcing mass groups of Jewish people to stop against their will or hide it. I would like to see non-therapeutic circumcision of minors banned. But I’m a pragmatist. I’d be willing to pursue policies which merely discourage people from doing it but don’t outright ban it, like expanding the requirements for “informed consent” to include watching a video of a circumcision being performed and showing them photographs of botched circumcisions. It’d be a similar approach to what pro-lifers have done with abortion. Supreme Court precedent prevents them from banning it entirely, but States are free to put significant obstacles in people’s way. In addition to that, not a single penny of taxpayers money should go towards any medically unnecessary circumcision. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/214 "2018-11-14T23:10:44Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > As an aside, I don’t take this as a personal attack on Christianity at all. I take it as trying to draw in a majority religion in order to justify oppression of a minority one. By saying, “Hey, I’m not against Jews and Muslims, I’m against Christianity as well, so not prejudiced.” it takes the focus off of the real victims of this Crusade by hiding it behind anti-Christian rhetoric which is more socially acceptable. It may be useful to have a debate with someone who is arguing that point. I have repeatably stated that I personally think that prohibition is not possible, but as it is demonstrated to not be a CORE belief in almost all cases for the major religions involved, of which Jewish is an extreme minority, we know we don’t have to resort to laws that restrict religious freedom to address it. Lets be clear, the US is an outlier being the ONLY western, first world, and christian country where infant circumcision is the general rule. The fact that it is NOT a hard requirement of the top two largest Abrahamic religions shows what is possible not what is impossible. To quote James Madison and Federalist paper 10 once again [http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th\_century/fed10.asp](http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed10.asp) > [@](#): > > here are two methods of curing the mischiefs of faction: the one, by removing its causes; the other, by controlling its effects. > > There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests. > > **It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it was worse than the disease.** Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency. What is not useful is to pretend that religion and the US’s form had no factor in the current popularity. While it would be awesome if Christian religious leaders would directly address this subject without question, the general views and morality are addressable here. No minority group in the US is responsible for neonatal circumcision being one of the most common surgical procedures in the country. False beliefs based on pietistic Protestant movements lead to an almost universal adoption of the practice in the UK and the US in the mid 1800’s just as happened in the Suni populations in an extra-cannon fashion. It is quite a stretch to ignore the adoption of the practice outside of those facts, and if you can’t separate that from what you believe to be anti-Muslim or anti-Semitic desires the problem is with your own beliefs. There is a vast divide between breaking down a system that actively encourages unnecessary operations and those which seek to deny the same under religious grounds. You are simply providing a false dichotomy and to be honest are arguing out if bias for Christians as you seem to assume that all Muslims think circumcision is required. It is NOT and acceptance is just as complicated as any other religion but yet you are “othering” them into a monolithic group. How about you check your own assumptions and quit assuming that all Muslims share the same exact extra-quranic beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/215 "2018-11-14T23:18:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > We’re still talking specifically about infant/minor circumcisions, though, right? Because personally, I would be vehemently opposed to any kind of ban on **adult** males voluntarily getting circumcised, whether for some nearly-negligible medical benefit, aesthetic reasons, religious reasons, or any other reason. > > Circumcision, like facelifts or piercings or any other form of medically unnecessary minor body modification, should be legal for any consenting adult to procure. It’s only the circumcising of minor children without medical necessity that I think the anti-circ people have any justification whatever for opposing on human-rights grounds. I’ve spent quite a lot of time listening to the Intactivist community (people opposed to involuntary nontherapeutic genital modification) and nobody I’ve heard on that side want to ban it for consenting adults. However, on the pro-circumcision side there actually is a prominent advocate (Brian Morris) who wants to make circumcision [mandatory](https://www.skeptic.org.uk/magazine/onlinearticles/infant-circumcision/) for all children, even if the parents object! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/216 "2018-11-14T23:23:42Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Lets be clear, the US is an outlier being the ONLY western, first world, and christian country where infant circumcision is the general rule. While that used to be true it is now incorrect. IMC rates in the US are around 50% and declining so, in fact, the practice can no longer be called “the general rule” in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/217 "2018-11-14T23:30:38Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Circumcision, like facelifts or piercings or any other form of medically unnecessary minor body modification, should be legal for any consenting adult to procure. Agreed. _Incoming radical idea_ I suspect i won’t find a whole lot of support for this idea here but I’d extend the legality of medically unecessary cosmetic alterations to include anabolic steroid administration under care of a knowledgeable physician. The risks of pretty much _any_ surgery outweigh the risks of reasonable, medically supervised steroid use.\* And there is so much misinformation and lack of information on the subject of AAS that even most doctors dont really have a good understanding of their true effects and side effects. And since it’s illegal to use supra-therapeutically, no studies have been conducted on yhe long-term effects of such use. I am drawing a distinction between androgenic, anabolic steroid use for cosmetic purposes and medically-necessary testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). The latter is only restoring a man’s T levels to what has been determined to be a normal level for a man today. The information gleaned from this therapy can’t be used to predict what the long-term effects would be on a man with already normal T levels using AAS in supra-therapeutic dosages. So obviously, work would need to be done in order to make this a reality but i think it’s only due to fear-mongering and ignorance, on a cultural level, that truly stands in the way of such things ever happening. \*Although this cannot be stated unequivocally due to the status of AAS _effectively_ being a Schedule 1 controlled substance, considered to have no legit medical value, making studies on it’s effects for cosmetic use off-limits. Just like marijuana. I say “effectively” because while they are actually considered Sch. III controlled substances, that status is based on medically beneficial, therapeutic dosages. _Sorry for the hijack. Carry on_ ---
**Author:** ![Trafalgar\_Laura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trafalgar_laura/32/2907_2.png) [@Trafalgar\_Laura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trafalgar_Laura)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/218 "2018-11-14T23:46:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > We’re still talking specifically about infant/minor circumcisions, though, right? Because personally, I would be vehemently opposed to any kind of ban on **adult** males voluntarily getting circumcised, whether for some nearly-negligible medical benefit, aesthetic reasons, religious reasons, or any other reason. > > Circumcision, like facelifts or piercings or any other form of medically unnecessary minor body modification, should be legal for any consenting adult to procure. It’s only the circumcising of minor children without medical necessity that I think the anti-circ people have any justification whatever for opposing on human-rights grounds. Sorry, I should have been more clear. Yes, infant circumcision/circumcision with an inability to consent. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/219 "2018-11-15T00:05:24Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > why has nobody addressed the demon in the room? He’s [long gone](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=47631), but [not forgotten](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=45500). To address what I believe to be a more important contemporary issue, I condemn the widespread practice of docking puppy tails. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/220 "2018-11-15T00:11:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > He’s [long gone](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=47631), but [not forgotten](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=45500). > > To address what I believe to be a more important contemporary issue, I condemn the widespread practice of docking puppy tails. ☹ Let’s not forget the barbaric practice of declawing cats. Banned in numerous countries. Apparently house pets warrant more protection from cruelty than human babies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321.md?page=12)