# Infant genetal mutilation is a blood sacrifice to the demon Yahwe. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321 "2018-11-10T20:59:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/21 "2018-11-11T00:03:11Z")
Circumcision is definitely medically necessary for those patients (including infants and children) whose severe phimoses do not respond to more conservative treatment. Failure to circumcise in those circumstances risks nerve and other tissue damage that can make intercourse (and even masturbation) difficult to impossible, and can make normal urination a challenge too. This can lead to hydronephrosis and renal failure in the most extreme cases. Necrosis of not just the tip of the foreskin, but of the glans (or head of the ) penis can occur. But most other medical benefits of circumcision tend to be relative, and certainly don’t merit mandating the procedure. Or even recommending it most of the time, IMHO. QtM, MD: former circumciser of infants, who gave it up due to lack of true medical necessity to do the procedure in 99.999+% of the cases. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/22 "2018-11-11T00:50:30Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > QtM, MD: former circumciser of infants, who gave it up due to lack of true medical necessity to do the procedure in 99.999+% of the cases. What would you say if one of your former infant patients came to you as an adult, and said he was angry that he was circumcised without his consent? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/23 "2018-11-11T01:01:58Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > What would you say if one of your former infant patients came to you as an adult, and said he was angry that he was circumcised without his consent? I’d point out that his parents had the right to give consent for him, and that they were the ones who wanted the procedure done, despite counselling about its lack of necessity along with the usual risks/benefit discussion. And that at least I, unlike most circumcisers of that era, used pudendal blocks to anesthetize the region before cutting. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/24 "2018-11-11T01:07:37Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I’d point out that his parents had the right to give consent for him, and that they were the ones who wanted the procedure done, despite counselling about its lack of necessity along with the usual risks/benefit discussion. And that at least I, unlike most circumcisers of that era, used pudendal blocks to anesthetize the region before cutting. I was beyond horrified when I found out that until recent years, the procedure was often done without anesthesia. The idea was that it wasn’t necessary; that newborns didn’t feel pain, and even if they did, they wouldn’t remember it. :eek: I also think that the OP has some meds that he needs to be taking. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/25 "2018-11-11T01:08:51Z")
Ummm… Christians don’t circumcise religiously. So, I assume this is an anti-Jewish rant, but then you jump into Christianity and then the medical establishment for some reason which is really confusing since Jewish people don’t medically circumcise, but use a mohel. Based purely on this post, I would probably recommend you see a therapist. I don’t mean this to be insulting, but rather I’m voicing serious concern. I don’t think you’re thinking rationally at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/26 "2018-11-11T01:42:53Z")
Well it helps prevent penile cancer, and lessens the risk of infection with certain STD’s, improves genital hygiene, don’t have to worry about an infected or torn foreskin, and lets be honest uncircumcised wedding tackles are pretty gross looking anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Willcross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Willcross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Willcross)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/27 "2018-11-11T02:39:02Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Ummm… Christians don’t circumcise religiously. So, I assume this is an anti-Jewish rant, but then you jump into Christianity and then the medical establishment for some reason which is really confusing since Jewish people don’t medically circumcise, but use a mohel. Based purely on this post, I would probably recommend you see a therapist. I don’t mean this to be insulting, but rather I’m voicing serious concern. I don’t think you’re thinking rationally at the moment. Yeah, you beat me to it. Christianity doesn’t require circumsision at all. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/28 "2018-11-11T02:48:52Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Ummm… Christians don’t circumcise religiously. So, I assume this is an anti-Jewish rant First why would you think “anti-Jewish” when the overwhelming majority of people circumcised for religious reasons are Muslims? Second, even though expressed in a…peculiar way…what the OP says is fundamentally true. It _is_ a bloody ritual imposed by people who belong to a sect on helpless people who don’t. If, instead of being an usual practice in the western world, it was an African custom and practiced by immigrants, there’s no way it would pass muster. Everybody involved would end up in jail, no “religious freedom” question asked. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/29 "2018-11-11T02:59:37Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > There is an argument that this unduly impacts religious freedom It doesn’t impact religious freedom. I would say rather the contrary. The victims of circumcision don’t belong to any religion (for Jews) or aren’t old enough to make decisions about unnecessary “medical” procedures (for Muslims) . The bloody ritual is imposed onto them by people who do. If your religion was stating that you should whip random people in the street every other Wednesday, would you say that forbidding you from whipping people is unduly impacting your freedom of religion? Or that it forces you to respect other people’s freedom of not being part of your whipping religion? ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/30 "2018-11-11T03:21:38Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > First why would you think “anti-Jewish” when the overwhelming majority of people circumcised for religious reasons are Muslims? > > Second, even though expressed in a…peculiar way…what the OP says is fundamentally true. It _is_ a bloody ritual imposed by people who belong to a sect on helpless people who don’t. If, instead of being an usual practice in the western world, it was an African custom and practiced by immigrants, there’s no way it would pass muster. Everybody involved would end up in jail, no “religious freedom” question asked. Not in the US. Far more Jewish circumcisions. My concern for the OP is that he’s rambling between circumcision, Obamacare, Christianity while saying society is demon possessed. These are not markers of a rational mind and I worry for the poster. This isn’t the beginnings of a conversation on the pros and cons of an elective surgery, but rather they sound like paranoid ravings and I reiterate that I think the OP needs to talk to someone. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/31 "2018-11-11T03:32:46Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I was beyond horrified when I found out that until recent years, the procedure was often done without anesthesia. The idea was that it wasn’t necessary; that newborns didn’t feel pain, and even if they did, they wouldn’t remember it. :eek: Not just that. It was originally recommended to circumcise children without anesthesia because : > [@](#): > > The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anæsthetic, as the pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment Don’t forget that circumcision was originally only done for religious reason, and became common in the general public only during the 19th century and because supposedly it would limit masturbation. Decreased sensation was hoped for and pain during the procedure a feature, not a bug. That’s the tradition that people who aren’t circumcising infants for religious reasons are following : the Victorian era fear of masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/32 "2018-11-11T03:33:07Z")
Medical or religious grounds be damned, nothing was cut off of me and it makes sex feel better. Perhaps it does have benefits. But parents do it to infants because it was done to them before they left the hospital. Tradition is a worthless reason. An appendix is useless and can only kill a human. Why don’t we remove those from infants at birth? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/33 "2018-11-11T03:33:44Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Female genital mutilation was outlawed federally in the US the law discriminates against infant boys. I hope once some of the children who are hurt by this grow up and sue the ever living fuck out of the AMA and the butchers who perform this sacrifice to yahwe. > > The lawsuits potentially could cripple the entire medical establishment. > > The practice is altogether evil. My dick works just fine and feels fine. It can’t be _that_ bad. And FWIW, it’s a sign of the covenant between God and Abraham- that’s why Jews circumicize. Not quite sure why some Christians do, other than wanting to be part of the club I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/34 "2018-11-11T03:37:14Z")
Weird. Don’t think I’ve ever ran across a disgruntled customer. That’s what makes this issue so hard to debate. Most circumcised men are glad they have it, and most uncircumcised men are glad they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/35 "2018-11-11T03:40:54Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Female genital mutilation was outlawed federally in the US the law discriminates against infant boys. I hope once some of the children who are hurt by this grow up and sue the ever living fuck out of the AMA and the butchers who perform this sacrifice to yahwe. > > The lawsuits potentially could cripple the entire medical establishment. > > The practice is altogether evil. the two are not the same. FGM is outlawed because it’s the equivalent of removing almost the entirety of the penis. it’s nothing more than a way to exert control over women by inhibiting their ability to experience sexual pleasure. it is nowhere near comparable to removing a minor and barely consequential flap of skin from a guy’s equipment which in no way inhibits sexual function. if you are an adult man and you are still enraged about the loss of a flap of skin you never even knew you had, you really, _really_ are living a pampered life. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/36 "2018-11-11T03:42:21Z")
> [@bump](#): > > My dick works just fine and feels fine. It can’t be _that_ bad. > > And FWIW, it’s a sign of the covenant between God and Abraham- that’s why Jews circumicize. Not quite sure why some Christians do, other than wanting to be part of the club I suppose. Most Christians don’t. Americans do regardless of religion. We do it largely because of the cleanliness movement of early 20th century medicine. The medical establishment at the time felt circumcision was more hygenic and prevented disease. They pushed it on parents and it became engrained in American culture. Basically American circumcision is due to shoddy science. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/37 "2018-11-11T03:54:28Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Weird. Don’t think I’ve ever ran across a disgruntled customer. > > That’s what makes this issue so hard to debate. Most circumcised men are glad they have it, and most uncircumcised men are glad they don’t. Circumcised men have no frame of reference, uncircumcised men can pull the skin down with their hands while having sex to see what that feels like. Not a rush of adult men getting clipped, turns out. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/38 "2018-11-11T03:59:26Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > the two are not the same. FGM is outlawed because it’s the equivalent of removing almost the entirety of the penis. it’s nothing more than a way to exert control over women by inhibiting their ability to experience sexual pleasure. it is nowhere near comparable to removing a minor and barely consequential flap of skin from a guy’s equipment which in no way inhibits sexual function. The less damaging form of female circumcision is the removal of the clitoral hood, which is functionally the exact equivalent of male circumcision. Strangely enough it’s not allowed anymore than the more damaging forms and doing it will get you into jail. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/39 "2018-11-11T04:05:35Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Circumcised men have no frame of reference, uncircumcised men can pull the skin down with their hands while having sex to see what that feels like. > > Not a rush of adult men getting clipped, turns out. Men don’t typically rush to do ANYTHING that involves a knife and their penis as it turns out. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321/40 "2018-11-11T04:09:53Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Men don’t typically rush to do ANYTHING that involves a knife and their penis as it turns out. With good reason, it’s fucking stupid and it hurts. Still waitng to hear why this is good for babies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infant-genetal-mutilation-is-a-blood-sacrifice-to-the-demon-yahwe/824321.md?page=3)