# Infants Fly Free? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229 "2012-04-19T01:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/61 "2012-04-19T18:45:52Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I generally find that there’s no more solid and reliable SDMB rule than this: “If curlcoat is agreeing with me, I must be wrong.” Very true. This should be included in the stickies or something. The corollary is “If someone is agreeing with curlcoat, their opinions can safely be ignored”. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/62 "2012-04-19T19:00:03Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > If you have children, it’s difficult to imagine any of those things. And it certainly isn’t funny. Oh, please. I have plenty of friends with plenty of kids and each and every parent is as loving and caring as a parent can be. Yet they’ve all, at one point or another, made what were very obviously jokes about things like he wrote there. Out of context, I imagine some of them sound pretty bad, but in the situation, it was very clearly a light hearted joke on what is a stressful situation. Then again, maybe my friend was serious when she said, “If the baby doesn’t stop crying, I’m selling her to gypsies.” ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/63 "2012-04-19T19:02:08Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Oh, please. I have plenty of friends with plenty of kids and each and every parent is as loving and caring as a parent can be. Yet they’ve all, at one point or another, made what were very obviously jokes about things like he wrote there. Out of context, I imagine some of them sound pretty bad, but in the situation, it was very clearly a light hearted joke on what is a stressful situation. > > Then again, maybe my friend was serious when she said, “If the baby doesn’t stop crying, I’m selling her to gypsies.” Oh shit, my bad. Talking about strangling someone else’s baby with a guitar string is the pinnacle of comedy. Duly noted. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/64 "2012-04-19T19:10:50Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Oh shit, my bad. Talking about strangling someone else’s baby with a guitar string is the pinnacle of comedy. Duly noted. No but finding some dark humour to laugh at a situation is not unusual. I doubt they were aiming for high comedy, just something to alleviate the tension of sitting near a small wiggly noisemaker that they could do nothing about. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/65 "2012-04-19T19:21:15Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Serves you right for being sucker enough to fly with airlines based in countries that actually care about how companies treat their workers, rather than solely about the quality of the Oriental-Beauty tits that the workers present for your visual enjoyment. I see you haven’t been working in Mother Russia. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/66 "2012-04-19T19:29:34Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Ummm, she pretty much did. I don’t see how else to read her post. I think there are several ways to read it, but it was a bit tortured to really suss out the meaning. What I got out of it was that crying babies are one of (at least) three annoying things on an airplane, two others of which are puppies and drunks. I didn’t get that she was exalting the other two, just that they don’t get the free passes that babies do. Does that sound like a reasonable interpretation? ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/67 "2012-04-19T19:36:22Z")
I think the airlines need to put a blurb on every ticket that says, “Air travel is a form of public transportation. If you don’t have your own jet you have to fly with other people, much like not having your own car means you have to ride the bus. Please try to keep this in mind during your flight and avoid as much annoying behavior as possible and be understanding of the annoying behavior of others.” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/68 "2012-04-19T19:39:07Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Oh shit, my bad. Talking about strangling someone else’s baby with a guitar string is the pinnacle of comedy. Duly noted. 'neath the pinnacle of comedy lies a whole lotta perfectly good rock. You fossils way down in the sourpuss stratum know it as “the ceiling.” And yes, infants fly free— as it _should_ be, provided you get enough momentum in your spin. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/69 "2012-04-19T20:14:09Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I think there are several ways to read it, but it was a bit tortured to really suss out the meaning. What I got out of it was that crying babies are one of (at least) three annoying things on an airplane, two others of which are puppies and drunks. I didn’t get that she was exalting the other two, just that they don’t get the free passes that babies do. > > Does that sound like a reasonable interpretation? Not really. I can agree that the part about the drunks is possibly ambiguous, but she clearly said that puppies were \*not \* ever annoying. In fact, if she has a puppy ‘no one even knows it’s there’. I was just pointing out that pets can be equally annoying, and probably more so for people with allergies. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/70 "2012-04-19T20:20:42Z")
Crying babies aren’t as bad as the motherrfucking snakes. Or the flying nazis. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/71 "2012-04-19T20:23:47Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Not really. I can agree that the part about the drunks is possibly ambiguous, but she clearly said that puppies were \*not \* ever annoying. That’s not quite what she said. But I don’t really care. When I woke up this morning I put “Debate the small minutae of one of **curlcoat** ’s posts” on my todo list. I think I can safely cross that off and move on to the next thing. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/72 "2012-04-19T20:57:13Z")
Apparently, some people checked their humor bags on a plane that got delayed. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/73 "2012-04-19T20:58:40Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Screw that, I don’t fly first class! Put the babies up there! Are you trying to make **curlcoat** ’s head explode? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/74 "2012-04-19T21:13:29Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > If you have children, it’s difficult to imagine any of those things. And it certainly isn’t funny. Actually I regularly contemplate duct-taping junior to the wall with a toy to amuse himself just so I can get the chance to go pee in peace. > [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Oh shit, my bad. Talking about strangling someone else’s baby with a guitar string is the pinnacle of comedy. Duly noted. Actually, I assumed the guitar string was going to be used to hang themselves. Or perhaps remove their own genitalia to prevent future babies? I imagine that would take your mind of pretty much anything, including a crying baby. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/75 "2012-04-19T22:39:15Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > The cutoff is age 2. Kids older than that used to be able to fly half-price with an adult paying full-fare, but now it is generally full-fare for everyone. Babies only get to fly free if you agree to hold them the whole flight - if you want them in their own seat, you buy it at full price. Ah. So all of the non-verbals and some of the verbals could easily be flying free. Two seems awful old to be holding on one’s lap tho! > [@Meyer6](#): > > And? Are you suggesting that visiting distant family is _not_ an acceptable reason to fly? In any case, I doubt anyone would think that a flight with an infant would be fun in and of itself, they just think it’s worth it in order to get where they’re going. Please don’t hurt yourself trying to stretch for an interpretation that wasn’t there. You made it sound like the mother _had_ to fly with the baby; I was pointing out that she likely was not on a business trip or anything like that. > [@](#): > > I see plenty of babies on planes, they just aren’t generally terribly obnoxious. I doubt the places you fly have special children who are noisier than standard issue children, I’m guessing you’re just more sensitive than most people are. I believe I said that, tho in my view it is a case of parents and wanna be parents who are able to get used to/not hear the sort of noises that can come from babies and young children, yet are perfectly capable of complaining about things that make much less noise and are (at least to me and others) less irritating. Like drunk businessmen telling dirty jokes - big whoop. As for where I fly out of, I was merely suggesting that since I live in the magical world of Disney, it could be more likely that I fly with more and/or noisier children that average. > [@needscoffee](#): > > You are so full of it, you are just making stuff up now. You don’t possibly care whether the poor airlines are making extra money off of babies or not. Again, do not strain anything leaping to a conclusion that obviously is not there. I couldn’t care less about whether or not any airline is “making money off of babies” and I was very clear about that. Do try to get rid of that blinding bigotry. > [@](#): > > It’s not like you’re personally being reimbursed for the agony you have to go through to be in the same plane cabin as those potentially crying babies. What they pay or don’t pay is none of your concern and has no bearing on you, only on the bottom line of the airlines. Really? So you didn’t bother to read my post at all? > [@](#): > > Flying with a baby in lap is damned hard. If you’d ever tried it, you’d wonder why the airlines didn’t pay you for the extra difficulty. Oh please. _You_ chose to have a baby, then _you_ chose to take it on an airplane and then _you_ chose to not buy it a seat and then dare to complain about the “difficulty” the airline put you thru? How about the difficulty of getting a young puppy thru the airport and on the plane, and then keeping it quiet (because, you know, I am polite) thru the six hour flight, and then getting to pay $100 for that? Yes, I chose to do all of that but the only thing I complain about is having to pay $100 for the space under my seat while you dare to bitch about being able to take a family member for free. But then, that is what mothers do these days, isn’t it? > [@](#): > > Babies are a fact of human life just like slow-moving people and loud-talking people and snoring people and bad-smelling people. Would you ban the mentally handicapped from flying too, lest they make too much noise for you? You know what? If a mentally handicapped person is making the sort of disturbance that a baby or toddler can on a plane, the airline is very likely to remove them. How often have they removed a screaming baby or a toddler that won’t sit in their seat? > [@](#): > > If you have so much trouble with this every time you fly, one would think you’d have learned how to operate ear plugs by now. You are going to hurt yourself this way - I never said it was every time I fly. I don’t even know if there is a baby on the flight unless I hear it since I don’t go around checking all the seats. You know, you are awfully invested in this - feeling a bit guilty? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/76 "2012-04-19T22:57:20Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You made it sound like the mother _had_ to fly with the baby; I was pointing out that she likely was not on a business trip or anything like that. Well, seeing as you don’t have a job, you are certainly not flying for business either. What makes you think your reasons for flying with your unruly dog are better than their reasons for flying with their kid? I just seems silly to split hairs by trying to decree whether someones reasons for flying are good enough or not - why don’t you just assume that their reasons are legit and the rest of us will assume that your reasons are legit? > [@](#): > > How about the difficulty of getting a young puppy thru the airport and on the plane, and then keeping it quiet (because, you know, I am polite) thru the six hour flight, and then getting to pay $100 for that? So in your previous post the dog was so perfect that nobody even knew it was there, but now that you want to play the martyr suddenly it’s an ongoing struggle to just shut the thing up? Huh. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/77 "2012-04-19T22:57:26Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > I agree. She’s also conveniently ignoring the fact that lots of the things ‘non-parents’ do are potentially annoying and the rest of us do actually have to put up with them. I’ve sat through a (mercifully short) flight where someone’s dog whimpered and yelped loudly the whole time. I was also on a flight once when someone’s pet cat pulled a Houdini, got out of his carrier, and ran around the cabin for a while making mayhem until he could be recaptured. That’s not to mention the allergy problems pets can cause. I like animals, and I felt bad for the poor dog who was just scared, but it is ridiculous to claim that pets are 100% fine and babies are 100% awful. The funny thing about this is I never said anything like pets are 100% fine. I am _well_ aware that many people have pets with bad manners, but the point was (which you so conveniently ignored) that essentially every other disturbance on an airplane is either forbidden by law or restricted and made to pay quite a bit of money. Whereas there is no limit to the number of babies that could be on a flight, there is no official effort made to keep them quiet _and_ the mothers get to bring a potentially non-stop noise fest on for free. Meaning they are far more likely to bring baby than if they had to pay the hundreds of dollars for a seat for it. > [@](#): > > I’ve also experienced many, many annoyingly drunk passengers who were apparently not troublesome enough to get booted off, so that’s a bit of a red herring too. Huh. Sounds like you have as much patience with them as whoever it was that earlier posted about the drunk men telling jokes. > [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > Here’s an idea: set aside various flights for parents with infants. Fill out these flights with kids from the local junior and senior high schools. The parents reach their destinations quickly without annoying other travelers, and the high school kids learn about the consequences of unprotected sex without all the drama caused by trying to teach sex ed in schools. 🙂 That is actually a really good idea! Too bad the industry probably couldn’t afford it. > [@Meyer6](#): > > What? Did you read the post I was replying to? It’s pretty obvious you didn’t, because… > [@](#): > > She’s claiming that babies are the \*only \*annoying thing on planes getting a ‘free pass’, whereas puppies are completely silent and problem free and drunk people never, ever get to stay on the plane. —I didn’t say any of that. Only your extreme bigotry makes you think I did. Or maybe it’s simply that people who are arguing from a weak position must make up a defense. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/78 "2012-04-19T23:12:05Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > […] essentially every other disturbance on an airplane is either forbidden by law or restricted and made to pay quite a bit of money[…] > > […]Sounds like you have as much patience with them as whoever it was that earlier posted about the drunk men telling jokes[…] Do you not see the disconnect here? I don’t especially care about drunk obnoxious people on airplanes, but you yourself have admitted that they are there, and here you are implying that they require patience to deal with. So, they are an annoying disturbance that requires the patience of others - and not forbidden by law (unless \*extremely \*disruptive), and not being made to pay more money. Hmmm, goes against what you were trying to say, no? Actually, in my experience, the most annoying people to fly with are middle aged and slightly older women. They’re the ones complaining endlessly about how the flight is late, and WTF why do we have to wait for deicing, and the food isn’t right, and the drink cart hasn’t been by in a whole hour. They’re the ones who bitch to everyone around them about how they’re going to miss their connection to Cancun because of this snowstorm, as though the rest of us have nowhere special to be. They’re the worst customers in retail, they’re the most annoying diners in restaurants, and they’re also terrible plane companions. So, really, they’re the ones who should pay extra. How’s that sound? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/79 "2012-04-19T23:14:27Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Very true. This should be included in the stickies or something. > > The corollary is “If someone is agreeing with curlcoat, their opinions can safely be ignored”. Are you not aware of how sad that is? You might as well say “If someone is agreeing with an opinion I don’t like, their opinions on everything else can safely be ignored”. > [@tdn](#): > > I think there are several ways to read it, but it was a bit tortured to really suss out the meaning. What I got out of it was that crying babies are one of (at least) three annoying things on an airplane, two others of which are puppies and drunks. I didn’t get that she was exalting the other two, just that they don’t get the free passes that babies do. > > Does that sound like a reasonable interpretation? I’m sorry it was hard to suss out the meaning, but you are pretty much spot on. > [@Meyer6](#): > > Not really. I can agree that the part about the drunks is possibly ambiguous, but she clearly said that puppies were \*not \* ever annoying. In fact, if she has a puppy ‘no one even knows it’s there’. I was just pointing out that pets can be equally annoying, and probably more so for people with allergies. Quote that I said that puppies were not ever annoying. Yes, I had a puppy that no one knew was there, but that doesn’t mean to anyone else on this planet that every pet flies that way. You might just want to admit that you (purposely?) miss-interpreted my whole post. > [@needscoffee](#): > > Are you trying to make **curlcoat** ’s head explode? Why would it? I can’t afford to fly first class - stick them all up there. Oh, except I am usually flying in the bulkhead seats so I guess that would guarantee I’d be stuck listening to any that squall… ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/80 "2012-04-20T00:04:54Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You know, you are awfully invested in this - feeling a bit guilty? Nope. But I fully understand that human babies cry, and human adults get stuck having to listen once in a while. It’s not pleasant, but that’s life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229.md?page=5)