# Infants Fly Free? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229 "2012-04-19T01:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/141 "2012-04-29T08:18:51Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > And children in general wouldn’t be any issue for me if the majority of folks out there not only expect me to pay way too much in taxes to support other peoples lifestyle choices (children)… > > …and quit expecting me to help pay for the privilege, and I’ll quit expressing distaste for your decision to help overpopulate. I was under the impression that you were receiving some sort of pension/benefit for some sort of disability. Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that mean you are a beneficiary of taxpayer largesse too?\*\* And that you are rather unlikely to be actually _paying_ any taxes whatsoever yourself? And those of us who have had children AND pay taxes are providing a future fund so that some poor schlepper can be educated to wipe your snot and arse in your dotage? So, what’s yer’ beef again? > [@](#): > > And no, it doesn’t suck to be me - honestly, people can be perfectly happy without having had any children. It sucks to be you, not because you don’t have kids, but that you’re such a **fucking bitter old crone**. I have the utmost respect for those who decide (for whatever reason) they won’t have children. People can certainly be perfectly happy without kids. But y’see, you’re _not_ happy. You have so many chips on your shoulders about how kids are fucking up your life you’re depriving native forests of growth. You constantly rail against the injustices perpetrated upon you by the sheer fact that children exist. If you were _happy_, you’d shrug it off like the rest of us do with things that shit us about living in modern society. But not you **curlcoat**. \*\*Or insurance, which is still funded by other parties to cover the costs of your care at the expense of their own. Insurance is essentially a private taxation arrangement. If you have to make a claim, your premiums are never enough to cover your costs: others have to pay to keep you kicking. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/142 "2012-04-29T18:48:08Z")
Dude, don’t poke the bear already. This is her favorite performance piece. We can almost recite it, delusion for delusion, right up to twisted conclusion! ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/143 "2012-04-29T18:55:35Z")
Who still lets infants fly free? I thought that changed, what about turbulence? As a parent I can’t fathom who would want to hold a squirming infant in their belted lap for an hour or more. No room to put them down in a bouncy chair, it’s difficult to walk them about, so strap them in their own chair for the flight. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/144 "2012-04-30T06:02:30Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Or at least they’ve managed to eliminate that [tiresome labor-loving drivel](http://www.mallenbaker.net/csr/page.php?Story_ID=1072) about not throwing good workers out on their asses once their years of hard work have started to show up on their faces: > Serves you right for being sucker enough to fly with airlines based in countries that actually care about how companies treat their workers, rather than solely about the quality of the Oriental-Beauty tits that the workers present for your visual enjoyment. Singapore Airlines is far worse than this - they also impose weight limits on the female flight attendants (yes, including post pregnancy) ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/145 "2012-04-30T06:23:32Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Can I just say that we traveled with anklebiters a number of times, and exactly zero of those trips were “unavoidable”. > > BUT… those were happy, well-behaved toddlers. When those kids were infants, we _ **didn’t take them on planes** _. We took a couple of years off from our usually-annual trips to Seattle (yes, I went through rain-and-coffee withdrawal, but we weren’t sure we could keep the baby and everyone else happy on the flight). > > We just told people if they wanted to see that we’d procreated, they’d have to visit us. A lot of friends thought we were being silly, but a cross-country flight is not a quick hop (and twice as long with each decibel of crying child). > > [pats self on back for being a human being] [with at least minimal thoughtfulness] Unavoidable is something of a sliding scale. We’ll be taking our almost two year old on an 11 hour flight next month. Is it essential? Not exactly, but considering that I haven’t seen my family in 11 years, my grandfather, who can no longer travel has never seen either of my kids (the older one is eight) and I’ll be visiting family that I haven’t seen since my mother’s funeral. I’m freaking out about spending 11 hours on a plane with an infant - but what should I do? leave her at home? For three weeks? Drug her? Lucky thing is there are three of her normal caregivers travelling with her, so we can take turns taking care… ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/146 "2012-04-30T07:16:03Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Lack of comprehension is also one of those speck/beam topics you should probably avoid, I’m afraid. Right. People go about making shit up that they claim I’ve said (not that they can ever prove it) and I’m the one who you think lacks comprehension? > [@](#): > > Oh, and just in case it was coming, you should probably avoid accusing others of being joyless, dreary old fucks whose greatest gift to the species will be their passing. Just saying. I don’t believe that I’ve ever said anything remotely like that, but then it is probably just another example of people responding emotionally rather than with a brain cell or two. > [@kambuckta](#): > > I was under the impression that you were receiving some sort of pension/benefit for some sort of disability. Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that mean you are a beneficiary of taxpayer largesse too?\*\* And that you are rather unlikely to be actually _paying_ any taxes whatsoever yourself? And those of us who have had children AND pay taxes are providing a future fund so that some poor schlepper can be educated to wipe your snot and arse in your dotage? So, what’s yer’ beef again? Ya know, I get really tired of this particular meme. I get social security, a pension. Because the government stole money from the SS pool to fund a war or whatever means that what is paid in by workers now basically goes out to those who are receiving benefits, but that doesn’t negate the fact that social security is a government mandated pension plan. I pay all sorts of taxes - not working for a paycheck doesn’t mean I don’t have to keep paying in. I pay income tax to the state and fed, property tax, taxes on two vehicles as well as the usual gas & sales taxes plus whatever else didn’t come quickly to mind. And, as I have also stated many times, my complaint with having to support children born to those who had to know they couldn’t afford them, such as Octomoms kids. Those children who are raised and educated on the taxpayers dollar are not the ones who will have any sort of decent career, not even enough to be a nurse should I need one in the future. Your overreaction on the subject belies your state of mind. > [@](#): > > It sucks to be you, not because you don’t have kids, but that you’re such a **fucking bitter old crone**. On the other hand, this meme is becoming rather amusing. I’m a fucking bitter old crone because I am tired of all of the people with their hand out “for the children”? What makes you think that would cause me to be bitter, or age faster? In fact, it is you all who are expressing far more, well, bitter and defensive reactions to my lack of desire to continue to finance folks’ decision to reproduce, or put up with those kids whose parents would rather not bother to do their job. > [@](#): > > I have the utmost respect for those who decide (for whatever reason) they won’t have children. People can certainly be perfectly happy without kids. But y’see, you’re _not_ happy. You are wrong on both counts. Because you cannot understand why anyone wouldn’t want to have kids and wouldn’t love any kid, you have no respect for the choice to be childfree. And I am very happy - I have a busy fulfilling life filled with friends, activities and a loving husband. If I didn’t have a treacherous body my life would probably be perfect. My complaining about children is the same thing as someone else complaining about traffic or loud motorcycles, yet you can’t see it that way because you are so wrapped up in this idea that either people must be “normal” and love all children, or they are some sort of freak. Sucks to be you. > [@bengangmo](#): > > Unavoidable is something of a sliding scale. > > We’ll be taking our almost two year old on an 11 hour flight next month. Is it essential? Not exactly, but considering that I haven’t seen my family in 11 years, my grandfather, who can no longer travel has never seen either of my kids (the older one is eight) and I’ll be visiting family that I haven’t seen since my mother’s funeral. > > I’m freaking out about spending 11 hours on a plane with an infant - but what should I do? leave her at home? For three weeks? Drug her? > > Lucky thing is there are three of her normal caregivers travelling with her, so we can take turns taking care… Thank you for planning ahead and also for being concerned about the comfort of your fellow travelers. I imagine it will turn out that your child will be one of those that most do not notice. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/147 "2012-04-30T08:45:41Z")
‘My complaining about children is the same thing as someone else complaining about traffic or loud motorcycles’ If I saw anyone complaining about those things as much as i see you complaining about these issues, Id think something was a bit off as well. I know many people who are child free who are perfectly happy with that decision or how things turned out. You do not give that impression. Otara ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/148 "2012-04-30T08:56:29Z")
So I said (amongst other things) : > [@](#): > > I have the utmost respect for those who decide (for whatever reason) they won’t have children. People can certainly be perfectly happy without kids. And curlcoat responded with (amongst other things) : > [@](#): > > You are wrong on both counts. Because you cannot understand why anyone wouldn’t want to have kids and wouldn’t love any kid, you have no respect for the choice to be childfree… you are so wrapped up in this idea that either people must be “normal” and love all children, or they are some sort of freak. Sucks to be you. OK…I know I’ve had to do it before, but I hereby bow out of this thread. As **Gary Kumquat** mentioned, her comprehension skills are so severely lacking, I fear that engaging in debate with her would be an assault upon someone with an intellectual disability. Cheers, kam. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/149 "2012-04-30T11:43:01Z")
Curlcoat could always try asking the mother on the airplane to take a tip from the last episode of M_A_S\*H. What? ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/150 "2012-04-30T12:14:07Z")
Flying with my daughter when she was an infant was easy - she slept the whole way. Now she’s a year and a half. much harder - she won’t sit still, cries, wants to run around. She’s a toddler, wants to do toddler stuff. We’re taking her on a 10 hour flight soon to visit her grandparents. Why can’t her grandparents come visit us instead? Oh right, Grammy is dying (at 65, another pit thread when I have the energy), and its probably the last time she’ll see her granddaughter. I’m sure curlcoat wonders why can’t she put off the chemo to avoid inconveniencing her ilk? Oh, curlcoat? You are a bitter fucking crone. And an asshole. Fuck you. (we did buy pony up for her own seat to try and make things easier for other on the plane) ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/151 "2012-04-30T15:23:25Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > OK…I know I’ve had to do it before, but I hereby bow out of this thread. As **Gary Kumquat** mentioned, her comprehension skills are so severely lacking, I fear that engaging in debate with her would be an assault upon someone with an intellectual disability. Prepare to hear **curlcoat** crow about how she has bested you and you’re just running away to cry into your cornflakes because you can’t handle her superior debating skills. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/152 "2012-04-30T22:20:21Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > If I saw anyone complaining about those things as much as i see you complaining about these issues, Id think something was a bit off as well. Something _is_ off - people race to defend bad parents any time someone dares to complain about having to put up with horrid children. > [@](#): > > I know many people who are child free who are perfectly happy with that decision or how things turned out. You do not give that impression. And? You are aware that being happily child free doesn’t mean we want to have to put up with bratty children at every turn, right? > [@kambuckta](#): > > OK…I know I’ve had to do it before, but I hereby bow out of this thread. As **Gary Kumquat** mentioned, her comprehension skills are so severely lacking, I fear that engaging in debate with her would be an assault upon someone with an intellectual disability. Snort. You make a statement about someone like me and I tell you that it is wrong, and _I_ have comprehension problems? Right. > [@mozchron](#): > > Flying with my daughter when she was an infant was easy - she slept the whole way. > > Now she’s a year and a half. much harder - she won’t sit still, cries, wants to run around. She’s a toddler, wants to do toddler stuff. > > We’re taking her on a 10 hour flight soon to visit her grandparents. Why can’t her grandparents come visit us instead? > > Oh right, Grammy is dying (at 65, another pit thread when I have the energy), and its probably the last time she’ll see her granddaughter. I’m sure curlcoat wonders why can’t she put off the chemo to avoid inconveniencing her ilk? > > Oh, curlcoat? You are a bitter fucking crone. And an asshole. Fuck you. > > (we did buy pony up for her own seat to try and make things easier for other on the plane) Ok, you know that this is going to be a nightmare trip for everyone involved (how many does a plane hold these days?), twice, yet your feelings and comforts are more important than everyone elses’ and I’m the bitter asshole crone? Then you bring up the dying grandmother as if that has anything at all to do with the average trip taken by young children or anything said in this thread, and you pretend that you are doing it for a child that is likely not old enough to remember the trip for any length of time. Nor is she even likely to enjoy most of the trip. You conveniently ignore the fact that some parents in this thread have stated that they were able to take their own toddlers on a long flight without imposing on the rest of the travelers. Then you end with how magnanimous you are being for paying for a seat for your child. Now, explain how it is that you aren’t being a selfish asshole here? I get that Grandma might want to see your daughter one last time but for you to just assume that the world should accommodate you when the only thing you appear to have done to try to ensure that your child doesn’t disrupt two flights is buy her a seat is pretty selfish. Try changing your daughter to my service dog and then pretend that I would let any dog of mine do anything to bother anyone - if I were flying 10 hours to visit my dying grandmother would I have the right to call you a bitter old crone if you complained about having to listen to barking or howling, or having to put up with the dog running up and down the aisle or taking a dump? Answer: no I wouldn’t because I have a responsibility to see that my dog doesn’t impose on others, just as you have that responsibility regarding your daughter. Blaming others for not wanting to put up with an out of control child doesn’t absolve you from attempting to be a good parent. > [@Meyer6](#): > > Prepare to hear **curlcoat** crow about how she has bested you and you’re just running away to cry into your cornflakes because you can’t handle her superior debating skills. Naw, that’s just you when you make up shit and then refuse to prove it’s true. Repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/153 "2012-05-01T03:18:29Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Naw, that’s just you when you make up shit and then refuse to prove it’s true. Repeatedly. Ha ha, as if. Arguing with you is completely pointless, because you are exceptionally dumb. I’ve had more successful discussions with brick walls. But, every once in a while it strikes me as humorous to engage you and see what kind of ridiculous drivel you come up with this time. You never fail to disappoint. But then reality hits and I remember how annoying you are, and we exchange a few posts where I quote some of the hateful and stupid things that you have said and you cry like a whiny little bitch about how unfair and terrible I am, and then I realize that I really have much better things to do with my time. Since you clearly do \*not \*have better things to do with your time, you think that the only reason I’d decline further interaction with you is because I’ve been scared off by your fearsome intellect. Well, let me assure you, that has never once been the case. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/154 "2012-05-01T07:04:50Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Ha ha, as if. Arguing with you is completely pointless, because you are exceptionally dumb. I’ve had more successful discussions with brick walls. But, every once in a while it strikes me as humorous to engage you and see what kind of ridiculous drivel you come up with this time. You never fail to disappoint. Right. You engage, you over-react, you lie, you run away - same pattern every time. Now you want to claim you are doing it for your amusement? > [@](#): > > But then reality hits and I remember how annoying you are, and we exchange a few posts where I quote some of the hateful and stupid things that you have said and you cry like a whiny little bitch about how unfair and terrible I am, Well, there’s another lie - I’ll ask for a cite so we can watch you run off again. > [@](#): > > Since you clearly do \*not \*have better things to do with your time, you think that the only reason I’d decline further interaction with you is because I’ve been scared off by your fearsome intellect. Well, let me assure you, that has never once been the case. Again with the lies. Let’s see - I spend _maybe_ five hours a week here on this board in total, on dial-up - nope, looks like I have lots of things to do other than watch you lie and deflect. And I certainly don’t waste my time trolling thru the threads trying to find someone I disagree with so I can fling shit on them. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/155 "2012-05-01T07:22:57Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Now, explain how it is that you aren’t being a selfish asshole here? I get that Grandma might want to see your daughter one last time but for you to just assume that the world should accommodate you when the only thing you appear to have done to try to ensure that your child doesn’t disrupt two flights is buy her a seat is pretty selfish. Try changing your daughter to my service dog and then pretend that I would let any dog of mine do anything to bother anyone - if I were flying 10 hours to visit my dying grandmother would I have the right to call you a bitter old crone if you complained about having to listen to barking or howling, or having to put up with the dog running up and down the aisle or taking a dump? Answer: no I wouldn’t because I have a responsibility to see that my dog doesn’t impose on others, just as you have that responsibility regarding your daughter. Blaming others for not wanting to put up with an out of control child doesn’t absolve you from attempting to be a good parent. Can we compromise? Leave you behind & take the kid and the mutt? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229/156 "2012-05-01T08:34:12Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Ok, you know that this is going to be a nightmare trip for everyone involved (how many does a plane hold these days?), twice, yet your feelings and comforts are more important than everyone elses’ and I’m the bitter asshole crone? Partially correct. You are indeed a bitter, arseholish crone. Frankly, your decision not to breed really was a good call. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/infants-fly-free/619229.md?page=7)