# Inherited Gay Gene Therapy **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 1, 2007, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145 "2007-03-01T10:58:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/21 "2007-03-03T18:20:37Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > But we play god all the time, though. Everybody with diabetes or who needs surgery or a blood transfusion would die if we didn’t. And I would call for an end to medical treatments for any disease or condition that we know is harmless or even beneficial to human survival. For instance, I’m about to take a bold stand that we stop trying to force lefties to become righties. We have studied diabetes and know many of its causes and can treat it, to some degree. We know what it does to the body. We can’t even say with confidence how _many_ people are gay/lesbian, or why it happens, or what effect gay people have on societal development. We shouldn’t even begin to consider fixing anything until we know if it’s truly broken. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/22 "2007-03-04T00:06:55Z")
[QUOTE=kung fu lola] That would **never** be possible. … [/QUOTE] My opinion differs on this point. [QUOTE=fish] We shouldn’t even begin to consider fixing anything until we know if it’s truly broken. [/QUOTE] Nicely put. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/23 "2007-03-04T02:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=Napier] . . . For example recent research shows that male homosexuality is much liklier in male children who have several older brothers. Something automatically increases the liklihood they are homosexual. Why? They aren’t liklier to miscarry. Apparently they give some evolutionary advantage to the species, but I haven’t heard what. [/QUOTE] I keep seeing this. Has anybody ever thought that the reason for this is simply the more you have of anything that has possibilities for variation(s), the more chance(s) those variation(s) will appear. It has nothing to do with the shear higher number of males in the family being a cause. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/24 "2007-03-04T02:45:00Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] I’m for creating more gay people. Let’s work on a therapy for that! [/QUOTE] I don’t know if that’s a good idea. Is our toaster technology up to the task? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/25 "2007-03-04T19:16:20Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] I keep seeing this. Has anybody ever thought that the reason for this is simply the more you have of anything that has possibilities for variation(s), the more chance(s) those variation(s) will appear. It has nothing to do with the shear higher number of males in the family being a cause. [/QUOTE] Using that logic, statistically you should have as many first-born sons born homosexual as later sons, but you don’t, if I remember the article I read on this intriguing anomaly correctly. **Fish** , I’m not saying we should or shouldn’t exercise “gay gene therapy.” Your point about not fixing it if we don’t know if it’s broken is a good one, though. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/26 "2007-03-04T22:08:51Z")
\>We shouldn’t even begin to consider fixing anything until we know if it’s truly broken. I like this too - _especially_ if we are talking about fixing it in someone else! ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/27 "2007-03-05T08:05:04Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > \>We shouldn’t even begin to consider fixing anything until we know if it’s truly broken. > > I like this too - _especially_ if we are talking about fixing it in someone else! ``` Most here seem to be in agreement with this. The question is whether it should be extended to prevent and not permit parents/expectant parents from using such technology to choose or amend the child's sexuality. ``` Should parents be banned from altering the genes of the child/embryo in this way? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/28 "2007-03-06T12:08:29Z")
In answer to my question: Yes, absolutely, such treatment should be prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/29 "2007-03-06T13:55:26Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] We shouldn’t even begin to consider fixing anything until we know if it’s truly broken. [/QUOTE] So how much of a problem must something be before we decide fixing it is okay? For example, the sickle cell trait is definitely a plus in some areas, under certain circumstances. Is it okay for people to use gene therapy, when we’re not sure if the child will ever end up in an area where the trait would be useful? If it turns out that not having gay people would be harmful for society, but a large number of adults want the therapy for themselves should we stop them? It can be difficult to be a minority, and I can’t blame parents who’d want to minimize some of the difficulties that their child might face. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/30 "2007-03-06T14:02:26Z")
The problem is, if gay gene therapy is allowed, the widespread use of it (and i’m pretty sure screenings at least would be pretty high) would itself contribute to the social stigma of the gay people who are alive now (as well as any gay kids brought up during that time). It’s hard to like people of your own gender now - what’s it going to be like if you’re brought up in a world where people are “cured” of a condition you have? A world in which, I am sure, those who believe it will run constant campaigns on this “cure” and that it should be used? It’s fair to say that you could have the therapy done in order to save your kid considerable hassle; but you may be condemning others to worse problems. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/31 "2007-03-06T14:44:16Z")
True, and fifteen or so years from now, a kid might not have much trouble with being gay in most areas. If not though, the chance of me setting my (hypothetical) kid up for a lot of easily and safely preventable pain, discrimination, and possible self-hatred for the greater good of society is slim to none. I know it’s selfish, and a great case could be made for calling it short-sighted. I know that in some cases things are better \*because \* people put their young kids in dangerous situations. That’s just the way it is though. There is good reason to wait until the child is old enough to decide too. It is difficult to be sure about what I’d would do if I were in that situation. I just don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/32 "2007-03-06T18:40:00Z")
[QUOTE=Omega Glory] So how much of a problem must something be before we decide fixing it is okay? … If it turns out that not having gay people would be harmful for society, but a large number of adults want the therapy for themselves should we stop them? [/quote] I tend to think that problem is self-solving. **If** we discover that a certain percentage of population being gay is a truly necessary thing for a healthy society, then at that point, there may not be be as much social ostracism and pain for those growing up gay. The trick is to get society to that point by the time the technology arrives. Of course, this presupposes that growing up straight contains no pain or social awkwardness at all, which is just absurd — the only advantage about growing up straight is that your straight parents are better able to counsel you about how to deal with your struggles. ---
**Author:** ![WorkInProgress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@WorkInProgress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WorkInProgress)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/33 "2007-03-06T19:17:13Z")
Here are the things I would “correct” if possible: homosexuality obesity shortness vision issues hearing issues Here are the things I would not “correct”: handedness race/skin color eye color hair color ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/34 "2007-03-06T19:30:22Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] I tend to think that problem is self-solving. **If** we discover that a certain percentage of population being gay is a truly necessary thing for a healthy society, then at that point, there may not be be as much social ostracism and pain for those growing up gay. The trick is to get society to that point by the time the technology arrives. [/QUOTE] If we did get such information, it would have the same effect that the news that race is social construct had. The people who’d benefit the most from having that information are the same ones who wouldn’t believe it. > [@](#): > > Of course, this presupposes that growing up straight contains no pain or social awkwardness at all, which is just absurd — the only advantage about growing up straight is that your straight parents are better able to counsel you about how to deal with your struggles. No, I think it presupposes that, on average, kids who are gay go through more pain and social awkwardness than their straight peers. By peer, I don’t just mean people in the same age group, but people with similar social, racial, religious and regional backgrounds. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/35 "2007-03-06T20:17:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Shoshana** > I’m for creating more gay people. Let’s work on a therapy for that! This is actually where the ethical question is now. They have been able to identify rams who will not be gay, straight and asexual. This is a boon to their owners, because they can make sure they have a straight ram to breed with. Since they are generally businessmen, rams that are not straight are going to wind up in a bag of Iams. So imagine this technology were available for humans. You were getting IVF. Would it be ethical for you to request a test and make sure your child was gay? Would it be ethical for another set of [aretns to have a straight baby? I don’t think it would be, in either case. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/36 "2007-03-06T20:23:54Z")
No, they might not believe it tomorrow if the answer came out today. But five hundred years ago we were still dunking witches in the pond. Four hundred years ago we were still using leeches instead of medicine. Three hundred years ago we were drilling holes in skulls to release the evil spirits. Two hundred years ago, doctors didn’t even wash their hands. Only a century ago we were trying to beat the left-handedness out of people. It’ll happen. Maybe not instantly, but it’ll happen. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/37 "2007-03-06T20:54:08Z")
[QUOTE=Omega Glory] So how much of a problem must something be before we decide fixing it is okay? For example, the sickle cell trait is definitely a plus in some areas, under certain circumstances. Is it okay for people to use gene therapy, when we’re not sure if the child will ever end up in an area where the trait would be useful? If it turns out that not having gay people would be harmful for society, but a large number of adults want the therapy for themselves should we stop them? It can be difficult to be a minority, and I can’t blame parents who’d want to minimize some of the difficulties that their child might face. [/QUOTE] How would you feel about a treatment that would, say, drastically reduce the amount of melanin a fetus produces, so it’s born white? Being black in today’s society also produces more than its fair share of difficulties. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/38 "2007-03-06T21:50:34Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] How would you feel about a treatment that would, say, drastically reduce the amount of melanin a fetus produces, so it’s born white? Being black in today’s society also produces more than its fair share of difficulties. [/QUOTE] I had a feeling someone would ask this. The analogy isn’t perfect because the seemingly white offspring of two mostly black parents is still technically black. If the point of the therapy is to protect the child from prejudice, at some point s/he is going to have to deny his/her biological family or the whole thing will fall apart. Which will cause a bunch of problems either way. Again, I certainly wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to reduce the amount of racial prejudice their child faced. The very light skinned child living in a home with dark black parents won’t be spared 100% though. Personally, being black hasn’t really a negative effect on my life at this point afaik\* so I wouldn’t have my kid de-melanized. Then again, there was a thread recently that asked if non-whites would be willing to become white. Several people said yes, and I understand why. Even I said that I might. I definitely understand why some lighter blacks decided to “pass” in the early to mid 1900s. If I heard about someone getting either of these kind of genetic therapies for their kids, I’d be bothered. If the parents have spoken to experts, gays in their area (or in your scenario, looked at their experiences being black in the US) and looked at the state of affairs of the times they lived in, and came to an informed decision, I don’t think it would be my place to step in and stop them. \*I guess it’s possible that I’ve experienced some form of institutional racism without knowing it. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145/39 "2007-03-06T22:07:07Z")
As an add on: I really hope we never do get to the point where genetic engineering is available to people who want to a design their baby. I don’t _want_ the earth to end up being populated solely by straight white males 18-49 because everyone went down and signed up for genetic engineering. If we did end up there though, I just can’t see tellling someone who wanted the treatment “Nope, you can’t have the therapy. You’ve got to be different because we need the diversity.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inherited-gay-gene-therapy/394145.md?page=1)