Something like 25% of the over-40 population have connective tissue damage in one or both knees that is significant enough to show up on an MRI. Most of those people have few or no symptoms. Non-athletes can generally function normally with a full ACL tear, though the ends may cause a lot of damage when they flop around inside the joint. In any case, it’s much more likely that you tore a meniscus (particularly the medial meniscus) than any of the collateral ligaments, if you tore anything at all.
Yea I don’t really think I have ACL or a tore a meniscus. I had no pain. And if you had ACL or a tore meniscus you you know you got injured on spot. Example if you where running than changed direction fast, jumping and then changed direction when you land, hyperextend of the knee, football tackle and leg twisting. You will year pop/snap and have pain. I had none of that.
I did not twist my leg like http://completept.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/torn_meniscus.jpg
There was no popping or snapping noise.
I know some people who gone running for the first time, had similar problems to what I had. It seems to be common problem for first time runners.
I think in my case sedentary lifestyles is more likely. I probably have weak muscles and doing any thing what I normally I do not do was too much.
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Yea I think some people here are making sound more seriously than it is . Like I say know some family members that gone running for the first time had similar problems.
There was no twisting like.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1585232.1453128542!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/navorro-bowman-busted-knee.jpg
Or even small twisting like.
There was no popping or snapping sound. And there was no pain. If you do leg raise and bring it up, and up, and up, you may start to have discomfort if you bring it up too high. Stop, do not bring up any more or you could injured your knee. If was not like that!! I had no discomfort and did not force it up to point there was discomfort.
What I was doing that day any **healthy active person **should be able to do. There was no pain or discomfort that day and I did not force my leg in that direction. No popping or snapping sound.
I think in my case I probably be better to try to be more active and do some knee strengthening exercises. And takes things slow not over do it. So I don’t have similar problems in the future.
On a side note for getting MRI my HMO plan would never improve that. I know person who had a bad knee injury. Doctor said unless you are sports athlete we are not giving you surgery!! wow, you have to live with it for life.
on the other hand, knowing the type and extent of the injury, even if your HMO says no surgery will make it possible for the Dr. to better advise you more specifically on therapeutic excercises AND gives you background documentation to take to your HMO in a few years when it gets worse if they reject surgical “repair” NOW. I don’t actually know how your HMO works on things like this, IME its always been best to get a rejected claim now and have an easier time getting coverage down the road when thing go downhill.
You probably just tore a meniscus. Don’t worry about it to much. They don’t heal, and surgery will only make it worse. You could try physical therapy to strengthen the muscles around the knee, it is quite effective.
Get another doctor. This isn’t a normal response.
That was his friend’s doctor, I think.
This is absolute nonsense.
Yeah, the OP hasn’t even seen a doctor about this. These types of threads are extremely frustrating.
OP: I have a pain right here or I don’t feel well.
SDMB: Go see a doctor.
OP: I’ve heard that doctors won’t do anything about it.
SDMB: Yes they will.
OP: I had a friend that had this, and they did nothing for him.
SDMB: Your friend is an exception, if real, go see a doctor.
OP: What else could I do?
SDMB: :smack:
You know if you have meniscus or an ACL, you have pain, there be no question about it, if you had meniscus or an ACL, you will not be able to continue the sport. Most likely you may even need some one to help you walk you to ER. It can happen to people in basketball, football, rugby, taekwondo, Judo or Karate.
Also spamforbrains From what I understand is the human body is machine that must be used all the time. If all all you do is walk and never use the staircase, you knees will be too weak to use staircase. If you get sick and in bed that say a car accident and in bed for time!! you knees will be too weak to support you when you try to walk. You have learn how to walk again.
If you trying to go running for first time on pavement ( that why they say running on grass is bit better) or try wushu or tai chi deep stance and over do it or have weak knees you knees will buckle or start to give way.
A job like movers could be too much for you knees if you have weak knees.
This is why they say people should do knee strengthening exercises. If you have a very sedentary lifestyle and tried basketball, football, rugby, Judo or Karate than most likely you knees will be buckling or start give way.
Where that day I was doing some thing I never do in my life ever, it was too much on my knees. In fact even two feet of ground is too much for some one with weak knees.
There are other common causes of knee pain: runner’s knee. The pain occurs under the kneecap, and appears to be caused by weak hip muscles. Physical therapy can cure it.
Bursitis can cause troubling knee pain that lasts for months.
I suggest you go for physical therapy. Your symptoms are identical to a meniscus tear. Physical therapy will strengthen your knees.
What they mean by “will not heal” is that a ligament is more like a piece of underwear waistband elastic than anything else. You can completely tear it, or you can just stretch it out so that it’s all floppy and loose and not really all that stretchy any more (the usual “partial tear”)
Neither of those is going to regenerate or resolve themselves; to get back full stability, you have to have it surgically repaired.
However, for partial ACL tears of certain degrees, there’s no reason for repair, as they’re stable enough for most people anyway. The muscles surrounding the joint will compensate to some extent as well.
I for example, have a partially torn ACL since 1988, and haven’t had a bit of trouble with it since. I did have to have the MCL repaired on the same knee in 1989 (actually dodged an ACL tear since it was already loose enough to avoid damage!) because the MCL keeps your knee from buckling inward to the side, and mine was completely torn, so I couldn’t stand with my leg in any way but exactly vertical- any lateral component made it buckle inward.
I understand that some people here seem to thing I may have got ACL or a meniscus tear. It just my understanding ACL or meniscus tear cause pain and lot time swelling, puffy, sore or red color and I had none that.
Now may be in some ceases less than 10% of the time, people may have gotten ACL or a meniscus tear and had no pain, being sore, swelling, puffy or red. I don’t know, only a medical doctor or some one taking anatomy class or working in the medical filed can answer that here in this thread.
I understand MRI is only and only true way to confirm if I had gotten ACL or a meniscus tear or not. Even a doctor may not know and say listen to me sweat only way for me to know is have MRI done on you.
I don’t have $5,00 to $10,000 for MRI. Just for me to know if it was ACL or a meniscus tear or not.
And unless I’m in pain or unable to walk the health care plan will not cover a MRI scan. I hear really bad horror stories of people having hip or knee problems and they are fighting it out because of bad health care plan.
The only other thing I can think of that could have happen to me is I have weak muscles because of sanitary lifestyle!! And when I raise the leg up too high may be it Hyperextended knee. It when you raise your legs straight up and it not bent little it could Hyperextended knee. If the muscles are too weak it could have Hyperextended knee when I raise the leg up too high. And putting too much wight on the knee and knee was doing the lifting and supporting wight than the muscles and it Hyperextended knee.
IANA doctor, but as far as I know, the only DEFINITIVE way to know is to scope it and take a look. MRIs are a great non-invasive backup, but I don’t know if they’re quite so accurate as to conclusively tell the degree of tearing on a partial tear or not, or exactly how torn a meniscus may be.
Partially torn ACL is very similar to a severe sprain; after 2-3 weeks, the swelling, etc… will probably have gone away, and you’ll be left with a knee joint that’s less stable than before, as that ligament is looser than it previously was.
A halfway competent doctor SHOULD be able to do something like the anterior drawer test to tell if your ACL is intact or torn. AFAIK, they can’t tell HOW torn an ACL is using that test though- part of the diagnostic sign of a tear is a indistinct endpoint to the motion, as opposed to an intact tendon that stops the motion firmly.
Meniscus tears may be painful, or they may catch in the joint and cause locking without a whole lot of pain- based on people I’ve known, they seem to be a bit more variable than ligament tears. Those are hard to diagnose from the outside though, since no amount of pulling or yanking is going to reveal it, unlike ligaments and tendons which stabilize the joint in specific axes or connect specific muscles across joints.
Tendon ruptures (i.e. patellar or quadriceps) aren’t going to be something you’re going to overlook- it’ll either be painful, or you’ll be more or less crippled if it’s completely torn.
I’ll try and say it one more time. A list of possible symptoms does not mean you have to have the entire list for it to be that particular injury. The injury, method of injury and an individual’s physiology will make each one at least slightly unique. A doctor examining you without actually going in and seeing can not be 100% sure and he actually has his hands on your knee. No one on a message board can tell you what injury you have looking at what symptoms you have or lack. All we can offer are anecdotes about our own injuries.
For me:
Right knee: blew up to the size of a basketball. Swelling went away after a couple of days. No change in color. Pain for about a week. Weakness in the knee. Misdiagnosed as a partial ACL tear. Actually a full tear.
Left knee: felt a pop. Low level dull pain. No swelling. No redness. Continued to try and exercise but the pain did not go away or get worse. After physical therapy did not work it was scoped. The doctor thought he was going to find a meniscus tear. Instead he found half of my ACL had detached and was flopping around inside of the joint. It was that flopping rubber band in the joint that was causing irritation and paint to the tissue around it.
So two injuries, two different doctors, two diagnoses that were off going just by symptoms.
Neither of them did the anterior drawer test where they basically have you bend your leg, and pull from behind to assess the condition of the ACL?
My wife had that done, they assessed that her previously partially torn ACL was now gone. They went in for surgery (this is pre-MRI days) found the ACL was still in the same state as last time, cleaned up some cartilage and closed up. It’s an imprecise science.
To the OP, your symptoms are consistent with just about any type, or lack of, knee injury. Only a doctor doing a hands on assessment followed by diagnostic tests can determine what is going on with your knee. Like everyone has said all thread.
Yes they did.
ETA: I hate that more than just about anything.
Exactly.
An MRI will conclusively tell you if there is a tear in connective tissue. Unfortunately, it won’t conclusively tell you if there isn’t one. That is, a tear seen on an MRI will all but invariably be an actual tear, but the MRI may not show small tears.
I thought everyone had insurance these days.
Why is it that some people who get ACL or Meniscus have pain and other people who get ACL or Meniscus have no pain.
why is ACL or Meniscus tears never heel on their own and require surgery?
A Knee Arthroscopy can diagnose and treat most knee problems. But this is knee surgery.
surgeon will make a very small incision and insert a tiny camera.
You got this running both times?