# Injust red light camera fine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 10, 2015, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173 "2015-11-10T06:32:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/61 "2015-11-11T06:52:35Z")
Two words: bus pass ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/62 "2015-11-11T06:59:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Two words: bus pass I do take the bus a lot but my wife likes to drive ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/63 "2015-11-11T08:16:39Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > People like palooka and my dad didn’t think so. Well my mum thinks you’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/64 "2015-11-11T09:05:51Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Well my mum thinks you’re an idiot. Perhaps in some ways but in other ways such as my grades in high school and university not so much. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/65 "2015-11-11T09:45:08Z")
She did commit an offence. Her only chance of getting off is if she ha a 10 year clean driving record. If she had stopped over the line she wouldn’t have been booked because the B image would show that the vehicle wasn’t moving and no penalty would have been issued. And if you go to court you will incur court costs and a larger fine. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/66 "2015-11-11T10:24:24Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > She did commit an offence. Her only chance of getting off is if she ha a 10 year clean driving record Like I said she is still guilty of something. I didn’t say she should get off of it all. > [@](#): > > If she had stopped over the line she wouldn’t have been booked because the B image would show that the vehicle wasn’t moving and no penalty would have been issued. From the infringement notice: “9. Why did I receive a red light infringement notice when I drove over the white line and did not proceed through the intersection? …once your vehicle has travelled over the solid white stop line, you have committed an offence.” > [@](#): > > And if you go to court you will incur court costs and a larger fine. It’s worth it for the experience of court. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/67 "2015-11-11T10:36:30Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > She assumed it was a green light for her since she was going straight ahead - perhaps at 40 or 50 km/h. In order to turn right she would have came to a complete stop before the white line because if she stops over the white line it counts as going through a red light. Then after coming to a stop she’d need to wait until the right traffic light turns green then turn right then do a u-turn (on a busy road) then come back and turn right. She has to concentrate on all of the traffic, etc, so she wouldn’t have much concentration to work out within a very short time that she needs to come to a complete stop very quickly. And if her ability to concentrate on multiple aspects of the driving situation is that poor it’s just lucky that she didn’t endanger someone when she approached an intersection at high speed in the wrong lane and decided to go through anyway (or failed to notice she was doing something wrong). Which is understandable but a traffic offense. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/68 "2015-11-11T16:54:25Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I’ve repaid that account which is temporarily mine while her brother is making car payments for her old car. BTW I paid half of her fine and would have paid it all if I could take it to court. I sold the Lego figures to eBay. I bought them from [bricklink.com](http://bricklink.com) not eBay. And how much net profit did you rake in on this business enterprise? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/69 "2015-11-11T16:56:18Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > BTW people can still try to make a legal defense even if they are technically wrong e.g. getting away with a speeding ticket While it is certainly true that you have the right to “try to make a legal defense”, most sane people understand that this is generally only worth doing if you think you have a chance of providing strong evidence that you are innocent. You don’t get bonus points for having the gumption to show up at court when you’re obviously guilty as hell. That is rather better known as “wasting the court’s time”. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/70 "2015-11-11T17:06:26Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > It’s worth it for the experience of court. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Please go and dispute this in court and let us know how that turns out. > Please use all of the arguments that you have used in this thread. > If you could work out a way to video tape the court proceedings and post it online for all of us to watch, that would be the best. > Please let us know your course of action. Please take a camera and film your court experience. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/71 "2015-11-11T17:22:34Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > She did commit an offence. Her only chance of getting off is if she ha a 10 year clean driving record. Yep, you always have a (better) shot at getting off if you have a stellar driving record. When i lived in Sydney, the owner of my local corner shop got a camera ticket for speeding on the Princes Highway. His written English wasn’t very good, and we knew each other pretty well from all my visits to the shop, so he asked if i would write a letter for him requesting a break on the ticket and explaining that it was his first ticket in over 15 years of driving. I wrote the letter, they rescinded the ticket, and i got free ice cream for a while. Of course, you have to know how to do it, and the first step is to actually take responsibility for what you did. “Yes, your honor, i’m very sorry for not paying attention and running the red light. It was a momentary lapse, and i promise to be much more careful in future. I would be very grateful if you could take my clean driving record into account and grant me a reprieve this time.” Based on this thread, if **JohnClay** goes in there to argue the case, it will sound more like, “Well, it wasn’t really a dangerous running of the light. You can see from the pictures that there was no other traffic around, and she really was going straight ahead so she didn’t think the red arrows were for her. This certainly was not the most dangerous offence imaginable, and i think it is unreasonable to give her a red light ticket for it.” Good luck with that, **John**. As **Omar Little** says, report back (preferably with video) and let us know how it goes. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/72 "2015-11-11T18:08:21Z")
I like to fight red light tickets and the such for my family and myself all the time. Sometimes I win; sometimes I lose. Sometimes I win ones I didn’t think I should have. Sometimes I lose ones I think I should have won. Anyway, in this case, I’d be surprised if the judge decides in your wife’s favor, as she clearly violated the law. In my jurisdiction, as far as I know, they don’t increase your fine if you decide to challenge it, so if you really want to take it up with the judge and the system is set up similarly in Australia, you’ve nothing to lose but your time. But I’d be surprised if the fine gets lowered or removed in this case, as it’s not an unjust ticket in any way that I’m viewing it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/73 "2015-11-11T18:41:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Two words: bus pass Actually, they call them “lorries” in Austria. Confused, Turnip ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/74 "2015-11-11T19:22:26Z")
Also, it is an immutable legal principle in the United States, and in the Commonwealth nations as well, that anyone who opens a defense with “see, what had happened was…” or any variation thereof automatically loses and has the penalty doubled. So consider yourself lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/75 "2015-11-11T20:50:12Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I like to fight red light tickets and the such for my family and myself all the time. Sometimes I win; sometimes I lose. Sometimes I win ones I didn’t think I should have. Sometimes I lose ones I think I should have won. Anyway, in this case, I’d be surprised if the judge decides in your wife’s favor, as she clearly violated the law. **In my jurisdiction, as far as I know, they don’t increase your fine** if you decide to challenge it, so if you really want to take it up with the judge and the system is set up similarly in Australia, you’ve nothing to lose but your time. But I’d be surprised if the fine gets lowered or removed in this case, as it’s not an unjust ticket in any way that I’m viewing it. It’s not so much that the fine goes up, it just that if you go to court you have to pay court costs on TOP of the fine. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/76 "2015-11-11T21:43:48Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > And how much net profit did you rake in on this business enterprise? I initially was selling them at a profit but lately I haven’t sold any and haven’t cut my prices. The bricklink price has gone down a lot. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/77 "2015-11-11T21:44:52Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Actually, they call them “lorries” in Austria. > > Confused, > Turnip I think in the UK lorries are trucks but nothing is called a lorry in Austria or Australia. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/78 "2015-11-11T22:15:02Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Perhaps in some ways but in other ways such as my grades in high school and university not so much. That post is spectacular! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/79 "2015-11-11T22:16:31Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > But what about after the intersection starts? There aren’t even dashed lines for the lanes. So it seems it might be reasonable to change lanes afterwards. As others have said, it is never legal to change lanes in an intersection. The fine for that would probably be something like $353AuD – that number sounds like the baseline fine for simple traffic infractions, so trying to argue a different offence will almost certainly result in a lower fine. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/80 "2015-11-11T22:46:21Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > It’s not so much that the fine goes up, it just that if you go to court you have to pay court costs on TOP of the fine. Yeah, we don’t do that here, except if you file a appeal. Showing up for court for the initial contest doesn’t cost anything when I’ve been. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173.md?page=5)