# Injust red light camera fine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 10, 2015, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173 "2015-11-10T06:32:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/81 "2015-11-11T22:55:19Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, we don’t do that here, except if you file a appeal. Showing up for court for the initial contest doesn’t cost anything when I’ve been. Actually, now I’m not 100% sure. For contesting by mail, there is no fee. I’ve won and lost those several times (I bat about 50%). I’ve only been to actual court twice, and I won both those, so I guess I wouldn’t know for certain if court costs are levied for camera-based tickets or not. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/82 "2015-11-11T23:34:27Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > People like palooka and my dad didn’t think so. Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/83 "2015-11-11T23:49:43Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I initially was selling them at a profit but lately I haven’t sold any and haven’t cut my prices. The bricklink price has gone down a lot. So, as literally everyone in that thread was telling you, your idea was a terrible terrible one virtually guaranteed to cause you to lose your (wife’s) money, but you went ahead with it anyway. And now, here, literally everyone is telling you you’re a fool for attempting to fight this, but you’re going to ignore everyone again and do it anyway. Any guesses as to the eventual outcome? ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/84 "2015-11-12T00:33:22Z")
I agree she went through a red light; I just don’t think it’s a very big deal in this instance. Running a red light is bad when you start intersecting with traffic that is going in other directions (like perpendicular) since you’re likely to kill someone. That didn’t happen here and there wasn’t a real chance of harm, so it’s whatever. No big deal. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/85 "2015-11-12T06:36:45Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > So, as literally everyone in that thread was telling you, your idea was a terrible terrible one virtually guaranteed to cause you to lose your (wife’s) money, but you went ahead with it anyway. Well experience can come from making mistakes and luckily I earn enough so that I could repay my wife even if I couldn’t make any sales. On the other hand some people go into business with a debt and they assume to make a lot of money to repay it and also work really long hours without paying themselves much of a salary. > [@](#): > > And now, here, literally everyone is telling you you’re a fool for attempting to fight this, but you’re going to ignore everyone again and do it anyway. Any guesses as to the eventual outcome? The outcome would be me having court experience but my wife won’t let me go to court - we’ve paid the fine now anyway. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/86 "2015-11-12T06:39:24Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > As others have said, it is never legal to change lanes in an intersection. Who said that it was legal? > [@](#): > > The fine for that would probably be something like $353AuD – that number sounds like the baseline fine for simple traffic infractions, so trying to argue a different offence will almost certainly result in a lower fine. Well that’s what I was after - a lower fine. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/87 "2015-11-12T06:50:57Z")
BTW maybe I’ve been influenced lately from some advice about anxiety - that it is better to say “at least…” than “what if…?” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/88 "2015-11-12T08:50:20Z")
Waitaminnit. Since when does a court allow a case to be argued by the spouse of the person who got the ticket? This is what **JohnClay** keeps saying he wants to do, and it seems like **pulykamell** is saying he’s actually done that too. You get to go to court in your wife’s behalf and argue her case for her? ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/89 "2015-11-12T09:10:13Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Waitaminnit. Since when does a court allow a case to be argued by the spouse of the person who got the ticket? This is what **JohnClay** keeps saying he wants to do, and it seems like **pulykamell** is saying he’s actually done that too. You get to go to court in your wife’s behalf and argue her case for her? Well she is unable to go due to anxiety. She could get a doctor’s certificate for it. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/90 "2015-11-12T09:30:54Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > I agree she went through a red light; I just don’t think it’s a very big deal in this instance. Running a red light is bad when you start intersecting with traffic that is going in other directions (like perpendicular) since you’re likely to kill someone. That didn’t happen here and there wasn’t a real chance of harm, so it’s whatever. No big deal. The traffic on the other carriageway, assuming they are paying attention whilst going through a junction, will have seen this car speed through a junction in the right turn lane. The moment that car passeed the stop line, at aspeed, they would be right in thinking “oh shit, that’s going to turn across us” and start to take, or prepare to take evasive measures and they’d have only a fraction of a second to do so. Any time that happens you greately increase the risk of an accident regardless of whether the car actually goes on to make the turn. In that very real sense, this car _did_ intersect and interfere with traffic coming in the opposite direction. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/91 "2015-11-12T10:59:57Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > I agree she went through a red light; I just don’t think it’s a very big deal in this instance. Running a red light is bad when you start intersecting with traffic that is going in other directions (like perpendicular) since you’re likely to kill someone. That didn’t happen here and there wasn’t a real chance of harm, so it’s whatever. No big deal. I dunno, when I look at the list of traffic offenses from any given jurisdiction, I see things like “Fail to comply with traffic control device” and not “Fail to comply with traffic control device (unless it’s not a big deal.)” the lane she was in had a red light. she went through the intersection. she ran a red light. full stop. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/92 "2015-11-12T13:44:13Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Waitaminnit. Since when does a court allow a case to be argued by the spouse of the person who got the ticket? This is what **JohnClay** keeps saying he wants to do, and it seems like **pulykamell** is saying he’s actually done that too. You get to go to court in your wife’s behalf and argue her case for her? No, the ones where I’ve argued for family have been contest-by-mail, which is available in my jurisdiction. Two of those red-light tickets I won. In court, no, I had to show up for myself. Sorry for not being clear. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/93 "2015-11-12T15:25:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > No, the ones where I’ve argued for family have been contest-by-mail, which is available in my jurisdiction. Two of those red-light tickets I won. In court, no, I had to show up for myself. Sorry for not being clear. So, to be clear, that means that you wrote the letter to the court, but the party ticketed was the one who signed it? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/94 "2015-11-12T15:28:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So, to be clear, that means that you wrote the letter to the court, but the party ticketed was the one who signed it? I wrote the letter to an administrative law officer. I may or not have signed for the party I was writing for (I don’t remember, and in the case of my father, I probably either signed for him or signed my name or possibly not at all. I cannot recall. It is technically supposed to be signed by the registered party, though. I suspect with how sloppy they were in actually reversing my father’s ticket–he had clearly and unequivocally blown the red–that they are haphazard about checking these things.) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/95 "2015-11-12T15:38:07Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/96 "2015-11-12T15:41:00Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > nm I see you edited but, yes, it is supposed to be signed by the registered owner. In the case of my wife, I did have her sign that document (and won that one, too! I’m 2-for-3 on red light cameras, where typically the success rate is something like 5%. Of course, when they are my own tickets, I seem to have worse luck. ☹ ) ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173/97 "2015-11-12T17:16:44Z")
I am an attorney, but not one in Australia, so take what I have to say with that in mind. You going to court to argue excuses will not work. They just will not. Just looking at those photos, I see a lot of evidence pointing towards wrongdoing of your wife. Look at the dark color car next to your wife. It stopped at the appropriate time whereas your wife kept going. Look at the light color car half out of frame in the first picture coming from the opposite direction. Look at the distance it travelled from pic 1 to pic 2. About a car length. Now compare that to the distance your wife travelled. She’s halfway through the intersection in a straight line. There’s no indication she stopped for a red. There’s no indication she slowed down for a red. There’s no indication she was attempting to change lanes. To me, it looks like she went straight ahead at an accelerated rate of speed as compared to the rest of traffic. Your excuses as to why it occurred won’t work. The judge won’t care. The prosecutor won’t care. All it will do is confirm the very actions that are in dispute. The only thing that may save you, IMHO, is an argument that disputes the evidence in question. You start to get into issues of Hearsay on the Officer’s word as to the veracity of the information contained when he/she wasn’t present at the time and location of the citation. It works here where I work. But you’d have to cite specific statutes and I have no clue if this technique is even applicable in Australia or your specific city/provincial ordinances. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/injust-red-light-camera-fine/737173.md?page=4)