# inmates in hot tents in AZ: just deserts or torture? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 25, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970 "2003-07-25T21:37:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/21 "2003-07-26T13:00:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MaryEFoo \* > \*\*That name and style of sheriff sounded familiar. It brought to mind a case where an arrestee in a wheelchair was harmed, so I googled Sheriff Arpaio, and the first hit > [http://www.arpaio.com/index.html](http://www.arpaio.com/index.html) is a web site by sheriff’s office employees. > > Couple of quotes from the site’s “Truth” page (there are more): > > "Arpaio: The Norberg wrongful death lawsuit was settled out of court for $8.25 million. Sheriff Arpaio has repeatedly claimed that this cost the taxpayers nothing since it was paid by an insurance company. > > Truth: At the time of the settlement the county had a $1 million “deductible” on its coverage. The taxpayers had to pay the first $1,000,000 on this case and now the deductible has been raised to $5 million. > > … > "Arpaio: Recidivism in the jails was reduced during his time as sheriff. > > Truth: Arpaio spent $10,000 in taxpayer money to have Arizona State University study recidivism in the jail system. The result showed that there was no change in the rate at which inmates returned to jail. Arpaio immediately declared that ASU was wrong." > > \*\* Arapio: I keep getting re-elected. Ha! ---
**Author:** ![wireless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@wireless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wireless)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/22 "2003-07-26T13:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by malkavia \* > \*\*Bahahahaha. Are you kidding me? It was 123 here in the summer of '91 (Maybe '92, I was pretty young) > > The rest of that June/July it was between 112 and 118. > > Pfeh. 110. _harumph_ \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by China Guy \* > **Summer of 1990. I was at grad school at Thunderbird. IIRC 123 degrees was the highest (at that time) ever recorded in a US city.** My recollection is that it was '91 but it could have been '90. (I lived in Phoenix from 9/89 to 8/91.) We’re talking about the year they had to shut down Sky Harbor while the airplane manufacturers recalc’d the charts for the high temps, right? As to the OP, I agree with the general concept of not coddling convicted criminals, but IIRC from the many previous articles on this subject, many in the Maricopa jail are **awaiting trial** and have yet to be convicted of the crime for which they’re being held, i.e. they haven’t necessarily “done the crime”, but simply can’t come up with bail money. Does that alter anyone’s opinion? ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/23 "2003-07-26T13:49:03Z")
> [@](#): > > My recollection is that it was '91 but it could have been '90. It was the summer of '90. I had just graduated from ASU and had to find a job for the six months until I went on active duty with the Air Force. I found a job that worked mostly outside and sometimes required me to stay in my car for hours on end - with the engine shut off, of course. I also remember when they stopped flights out of Sky Harbor because of the heat. Lots of people STILL live in Phoenix with no air conditioning. It’s not cruel, and it’s not unusual. Let the prisoners sweat and complain. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/24 "2003-07-26T14:36:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Wireless_ > many in the Maricopa jail are awaiting trial and have yet to be convicted of the crime for which they’re being held, i.e. they haven’t necessarily “done the crime”, but simply can’t come up with bail money. > > Does that alter anyone’s opinion? If you are right about this, it’s totally wrong to be doing it. Only people actually convicted of the crime they are accused should be in this sort of prison. As for the inmates that have been convicted: I don’t have a problem at all with this kind of prison system, as long as an eye is kept on the health of “fragile” prisoners, who may not be able to deal with the heat. They’re hot? They’re sick of bologna sandwiches? They find pink underwear demoralizing? Too bad. There are too many people in the world worth feeling sorry for to waste my sympathy on these guys! ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/25 "2003-07-26T18:01:19Z")
The paraplegic in the wheelchair was arrested for disturbing the peace. He received permanent physical injuries in the jail that same evening, at the hands of personnel, before he could make bail (spinal injury among other things). The majority (70%?) of the people in the sheriff’s custody have not been to court yet. See cites, I will repeat: [http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/special\_reports/arpaio/media/index.html](http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/special_reports/arpaio/media/index.html) [http://www.arpaio.com/index.html](http://www.arpaio.com/index.html) and select the “truth” button. Or Google Sheriff Arpaio, or Sheriff Arpaio wheelchair. One of the women in jail was too noisy in her pain when her stomach ulcer perforated, so they moved her into a single-occupancy cell so as not to disturb the others. It didn’t do her perforation any good. **Qadgop** , I don’t think this sheriff’s department does anything _very carefully_. **autz** , why do you say no one has died? ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/26 "2003-07-26T18:10:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by norinew \* > \*\*If you are right about this, it’s totally wrong to be doing it. Only people actually convicted of the crime they are accused should be in this sort of prison. As for the inmates that have been convicted: I don’t have a problem at all with this kind of prison system, \*as long as an eye is kept on the health of “fragile” prisoners \*\*\* How about the diabetic woman who had an insulin reaction(?) when they cut it down to two meals a day? She got retinal damage. I can’t tell you if she was serving time, or being held for trial. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/27 "2003-07-26T20:44:51Z")
Diabetics on insulin need 4 meals a day. That’s standard of care. Violate that, and one gets one’s tushy handed back to one in court. Diabetic retinopathy can happen to any diabetic, even with fair to good control. Developing retinopathy while in prison does not automatically equal poor care. Spartan conditions for healthy _convicts_ is one thing. At least in our state, an entire oversight system, answerable to the Governor and citizens is in place, which (theoretically) should respond to and correct abuses. Individuals jailed by a _sheriff_ while awaiting trial is quite another. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/28 "2003-07-26T21:50:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*Arapio: I keep getting re-elected. Ha! \*\* Yeah, that’s about it. It looks like he [might have some competition](http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2003-06-12/nelson.html/1/index.html) in the next primary election, however. (Frankly, I wonder if Martin might have a better chance running as an independent, if possible. He might get more support from Democrats and Independents than Republicans.) If he’s keeping people in tent city while awaiting trial, I’m even more disgusted by his actions. I don’t necessarily believe that prisoners need cable TV or the like, but I’m no real fan of tent city. Prisoners are still human and still will suffer through long days of 115 degree heat. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/29 "2003-07-27T06:38:19Z")
In Bakersfield, CA, it routinely hits 110 F in the summer, and a large percentage of the male population is employed in building, fixing, or drilling something outside. I’m sure they get breaks, but many of them are not within reach of proper buildings. They survive, and I’m sure that if the sheriff wants to stay away from a wrongful death lawsuit, he will keep these guys properly hydrated. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/30 "2003-07-27T07:36:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lel \* > \*\* I don’t necessarily believe that prisoners need cable TV or the like, but I’m no real fan of tent city. Prisoners are still human and still will suffer through long days of 115 degree heat. \*\* I spent about 14 years living in Dallas so I’m familiar with the effects of heat. I even have first hand experience with heat exhaustion. Provided that these inmates are in decent health, do not exert themselves during the hottest part of the day, and are properly hydrated there shouldn’t be any problems with tent city. Yes, it most certainly is unpleasant. Is it inhumane? I don’t see how. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/31 "2003-07-27T07:50:02Z")
Errr. This _is_ a **tent** city we’re discussing, right? Haven’t any of you been in tents on warm days? They’re much, much hotter than ambient temperature outdoors. Now I haven’t seen these tents, and perhaps they are sufficiently ventilated that this isn’t a problem, but the article in the OP mentions **138** frigging degrees inside! That is most decidedly not the same as suffering through the heat in a house without a/c, where you can generally keep the temperature at least no higher than it is outdoors. Are people seriously suggesting that 138F isn’t inhumane? Are inmates allowed to be outside of their tents? ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/32 "2003-07-27T08:15:48Z")
OK, from the cite [http://www.arpaio.com/index.html](http://www.arpaio.com/index.html) provided by **MaryEFoo** I go to the “Truth” section to find out the truth on the Joe Arpaio rumors. I find this: > [@](#): > > Arpaio: He invented the idea of housing prisoners in tents. > Truth: The Arizona Department of Corrections has used tents for decades. Facilities in other states also used tents before Arpaio. Sooo…the tents were NOT actually Arpaio’s idea, according to a website that’s critical of him. It’s COMMON PRACTICE in Arizona. I also find nothing in there about “70% of the people” in these tents being unconvicted. In fact, following the [http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/special\_reports/arpaio/media/index.html](http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/special_reports/arpaio/media/index.html) link to it’s logical end, I find that the main story cited about “Prison blues” is from 1993, and contains this: > [@](#): > > Whether Arpaio’s tent jails pass constitutional muster for prison housing remains to be seen. No case has been filed challenging the system and, so far, the only people placed in the tents are prisoners who have been convicted and sentenced. This was from TEN years ago…on a website dedicated to rooting out the worst on Joe Arpaio. Sorry…it sounds like the “most people in the tents are unconvicted” plea is untrue. And again, as to living in the tents…shut up and suck it up. I lived in Del Rio, TX for three years while serving my country. Doing a walkaround on my jet in August with a ramp temperature of 130 while wearing a nomex flightsuit (complete with long sleeves and gloves) gives me NO sympathy for convicts lounging around in their underwear under shade. Tying them to a stake with no shade…that would be cruel. Lying on a cot in their underwear in the shade…not bad at all. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/33 "2003-07-27T14:36:11Z")
You know, the dry heat out West really isn’t all that bad if you’re staying hydrated. Sure it’s hot as hell, and you sweat. But the sweat dries right up, maintaining your body temperature. It’s not like the summers I’m used to, where it’s 100 degrees outside fairly regularly, and the air is so thick and wet you can barely breathe. The sweat runs down you in rivers, and it never evaporates. With no evaporation, you’re body’s not cooling itself efficiently, if at all. And you know what? People live through this weather every summer with no air conditioning. Good, honest, hardworking people whose only crime is being unable to afford a/c. The working poor. People living in the “student ghettos” who can’t find affordable housing near campus that has air conditioning. Hell’s bells, my father has gone through this miserable weather outdoors every summer of his life. And he hasn’t done it lounging around in his boxers, either. He’s been wearing jeans, high leather work boots, a big heavy tool belt, and a hard hat, and engaging in heavy manual labor, often with no shade in sight. Yes, I’m sure the inmates are uncomfortable, but I don’t really see where they’re any worse off than thousands of people who aren’t incarcerated. I’m afraid I’m coming up a little short on sympathy here. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/34 "2003-07-27T18:10:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MaryEFoo \* > \*\* > > **autz** , why do you say no one has died? \*\* This was in response to someone worried about inmates in the hot tents dying of the heat. No one has died from the heat. And the chain gangs you mentioned are **voluntary**. No one is forced to be on them. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/35 "2003-07-27T18:34:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*Yeah, it would be just too damn bad if you got jailed on a bum rap. Given your lack of concern for the prisoners now, I’d have a hard time caring about whatever you had to endure, even though you were innocent. It would be poetic justice in any event. \*\* Your’re partly right–it would be really unfortunate for the occasional innocent person . But the VAST majority of prisoners are multiple offenders, who return to jail very soon after being released. Evidently, they like it “on the inside.” So why not make the conditions so tough that the prisoners don’t want to come back? If the thought of going to jail makes a criminal decide not to rob the gas station, maybe we’d have less crime. The current system obviously doesnt work too well ---
**Author:** ![SunTzu2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@SunTzu2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunTzu2U)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/36 "2003-07-27T18:36:26Z")
The inmates in AZ have it easy compared to the ones in Angola. It’s regulary over 100 degrees in Louisisana during the summer and its humid to boot. What humidity does to you is that when you sweat it doesn’t evaporate so you keep on sweating and keep on getting hotter. I have been in AZ in the summer and have worked in the summer heat both there and in Louisiana I would trade 110+ AZ heat any day with 100+ Louisiana heat. The inmates in Angola also don’t lounge around all day in tents. No, they get to work in the field at gunpoint from 6am to 6pm each day. Anyone gets the idea to move outside of the work box will earn a bullet for their efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/37 "2003-07-27T22:12:30Z")
Perhaps some of you would care to torture the inmates … a little electric shock to the genitals, maybe some beating about the head with a sock filled with sand … nothing that could cause permanent damage, you understand. It would be uncomfortable for the inmates, I am sure. But people on the outside who have committed no crime endure stuff that’s just as bad in everyday living … heck they break their arms, sprain their ankles, fall and hit their heads … the inmates being tortured would actually be better off than people in real life who may not have access to medical help when they are injured … C’mon, who do you people think you’re fooling? I thought we upright citizens were supposed to be better people than our criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Winsling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Winsling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winsling)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/38 "2003-07-28T01:38:10Z")
**Evil Captor** , I don’t agree that torturing someone is equivalent to not air conditioning them. Air conditioning is a luxury, even in Arizona. ---
**Author:** ![wireless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@wireless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wireless)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/39 "2003-07-28T14:51:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pilot141 \* > \*\*It was the summer of '90. \*\* Well, as I said, I wasn’t sure, so I’ll believe you. And to continue the hijack, I was working at Luke AFB those years and spent my share of time on the ramp, including that summer. I wasn’t in Nomex, but in long trousers even on the hottest days or the ramp guys would drive by and try to catch a “peek” as I was climbing the ladder to the cockpit (yes, I’m female). And I won’t even go into the ones who would “film” me with the IR camera! Fun days! (Actually, for the most part it was, but there were times…) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970/40 "2003-07-28T17:12:07Z")
I wouldn’t call this torture, but Sheriff Fuck-Face is still an asshole. An arrogant asshole. I’d love to see him lose the next election. And I don’t even LIVE in AZ. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inmates-in-hot-tents-in-az-just-deserts-or-torture/190970.md?page=3)