# Innocent People May Have Been Convicted... so let's investigate!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [October 26, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172 "2009-10-26T13:22:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/1 "2009-10-26T13:22:16Z")
Oh, not the actual cases. No, no. What we clearly need to do is conduct a [comprehensive investigation](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/us/25innocence.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1) of the student group that is uncovering the details about how innocent people may have been convicted!
> [@](#):
>
> For more than a decade, classes of students at Northwestern University’s journalism school have been scrutinizing the work of prosecutors and the police. The investigations into old crimes, as part of the Medill Innocence Project, have helped lead to the release of 11 inmates, the project’s director says, and an Illinois governor once cited those wrongful convictions as he announced he was commuting the sentences of everyone on death row.
> But as the Medill Innocence Project is raising concerns about another case, that of a man convicted in a murder 31 years ago, a hearing has been scheduled next month in Cook County Circuit Court on an unusual request: Local prosecutors have subpoenaed the grades, grading criteria, class syllabus, expense reports and e-mail messages of the journalism students themselves.
> .
> .
> .
> The students provided their videotaped interviews of critical witnesses and affidavits to the prosecutors, but in June the prosecutors subpoenaed far more — the students’ investigative memorandums, e-mail messages, notes from multiple interviews with witnesses and class grades.
>
> In their quest, prosecutors have raised a central question about the role of the students — suggesting that they should be viewed as an “investigative agency,” not journalists, whose unpublished materials could, under certain circumstances, be protected under a state statute.
>
> “The school believes it should be exempt from the scrutiny of this honorable court and the justice system, yet it should be deemed a purveyor of its inadequacies to the public,” a legal brief from prosecutors said.
Wow.
Just… wow.
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### Author:  [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/2 "2009-10-26T13:24:26Z")
I wish I could say I was shocked. ☹
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### Author:  [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/3 "2009-10-26T15:54:41Z")
I have to add that I’m especially disturbed by the attempts to relabel them not as journalists but as an “investigative agency.” With sufficient twisting of this logic, they’ll go after any other journalists who pursue sensitive topics that make the target look bad.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/4 "2009-10-26T16:10:57Z")
They are spending more effort going after the students than re-investigating the original crime and the evidence the students uncovered.
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### Author:  [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/5 "2009-10-26T16:16:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> They are spending more effort going after the students than re-investigating the original crime and the evidence the students uncovered.
Because that would be admitting they were wrong. How dare anyone prove the Government wrong!
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/6 "2009-10-26T16:16:53Z")
I predict this will do little to dispel the perception that (some) prosecutors are far more interested in winning cases than in actual truth or justice.
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/7 "2009-10-26T16:48:18Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> I predict this will do little to dispel the perception that (some) prosecutors are far more interested in winning cases than in actual truth or justice.
**Bricker** , have any comments on this?
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/8 "2009-10-26T16:57:10Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> I predict this will do little to dispel the perception that (some) prosecutors are far more interested in winning cases than in actual truth or justice.
> [@tdn](#):
>
> **Bricker** , have any comments on this?
Yes. It’s absolutely true. Some prosecutors are far more interested in winning cases than in actual truth or justice. See, e.g., Nifong, Mike.
I don’t want to paint all or even most prosecutors with this brush, because most are either decent sorts to begin with or at least willing to be convinced to be decent by strong argument. But there’s a small cadre of prosecutors who are utterly driven to win, and couldn’t care less about the merits of the case apart from how those merits affect the win.
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### Author:  [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/9 "2009-10-26T17:02:48Z")
Amazing. Those prosecutors have some serious huevos. I hope they fail miserably in this endeavor.
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/10 "2009-10-26T17:03:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Oh, not the actual cases. No, no. What we clearly need to do is conduct a [comprehensive investigation](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/us/25innocence.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1) of the student group that is uncovering the details about how innocent people may have been convicted!
>
> Wow.
>
> Just… wow.
Wow is right.
Isn’t the purpose of a “justice system” to see that justice is served, and wouldn’t that include the overturning of any erroneous or wrongful convictions???
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/11 "2009-10-26T17:07:27Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> I predict this will do little to dispel the perception that (some) prosecutors are far more interested in winning cases than in actual truth or justice.
If prosecutors were more interested in truth and justice instead of winning cases, maybe fewer innocent people would be turning up on death row. There’s really nothing else to say about all this: the prosecutors are embarrassed, so they are using the power of the office to harass the students.
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### Author:  [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/12 "2009-10-26T17:13:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> There’s really nothing else to say about all this: the prosecutors are embarrassed, so they are using the power of the office to harass the students.
Isn’t that itself a crime, or at least misconduct? And so clearly so that it should itself trigger an investigation?
Aren’t the people in power concerned about at least maintaining the _appearance_ of constitutional rule of law?
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### Author:  [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/13 "2009-10-26T17:18:59Z")
This something journalists have had to defend decade after decade. It’s nothing new. It’s always defend the right or lose it. This isn’t a static world where you can slack off ofter defending a right once. You get respites if your lucky where you can enjoy the right before defending it again.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/14 "2009-10-26T17:26:24Z")
> [@Sailboat](#):
>
> Isn’t that itself a crime, or at least misconduct? And so clearly so that it should itself trigger an investigation?
I couldn’t say. It sounds like it, but I don’t know.
> [@](#):
>
> Aren’t the people in power concerned about at least maintaining the _appearance_ of constitutional rule of law?
Again, if that was the main concern, you’d think innocent people wouldn’t be getting put on death row because they look like easy convictions, or get beaten by police until they confess, or have hopelessly inadequate legal representation.
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### Author:  [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/15 "2009-10-26T17:45:20Z")
I have yet to come down on a side of this issue. But I see more knee-jerk indignation than balanced discussion here. Can someone address the specific arguments the prosecutors have given in favor of requesting the information? I found the following line from the article linked in the OP to be of particular interest:
> [@](#):
>
> Among the issues the prosecutors need to understand better, a spokeswoman said, is whether students believed they would receive better grades if witnesses they interviewed provided evidence to exonerate Mr. McKinney.
Is it not reasonable to want to examine the veracity of such important information that is coming not from professional reporters, but from students working on a class project? Please educate me on _exactly_ why this is wrong.
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### Author:  [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/16 "2009-10-26T17:50:20Z")
> [@Wheelz](#):
>
> I have yet to come down on a side of this issue. But I see more knee-jerk indignation than balanced discussion here. Can someone address the specific arguments the prosecutors have given in favor of requesting the information? I found the following line from the article linked in the OP to be of particular interest:
> Is it not reasonable to want to examine the veracity of such important information that is coming not from professional reporters, but from students working on a class project? Please educate me on _exactly_ why this is wrong.
Do they have any reason to believe this is the case, or is this just a fishing expedition? How does this relate to the actual iknnocence of the convicted person? Are they investigating that?
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/17 "2009-10-26T18:10:44Z")
> [@Wheelz](#):
>
> Is it not reasonable to want to examine the veracity of such important information that is coming not from professional reporters, but from students working on a class project?
Do you know anything about the innocence project? It’s a bit more than “a class project.”
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/18 "2009-10-26T18:11:58Z")
> [@Wheelz](#):
>
> Is it not reasonable to want to examine the veracity of such important information that is coming not from professional reporters, but from students working on a class project? Please educate me on _exactly_ why this is wrong.
I don’t understand why that would even be relevant. Even if the student gets a better grade for finding exonerating testimony, what reason would the witness have to make something up? They’re not getting a grade.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/19 "2009-10-26T18:30:32Z")
> [@Wheelz](#):
>
> I have yet to come down on a side of this issue. But I see more knee-jerk indignation than balanced discussion here. Can someone address the specific arguments the prosecutors have given in favor of requesting the information? I found the following line from the article linked in the OP to be of particular interest:
> Is it not reasonable to want to examine the veracity of such important information that is coming not from professional reporters, but from students working on a class project? Please educate me on _exactly_ why this is wrong.
Please educate me on what the relevance is of the requested information. As **Miller** points out, the witnesses aren’t getting graded. Let’s assume the students were told they’d get better grades if they found witnesses that would indicate innocence. How does that change the course of the investigation that the prosecutors undertake? Presumably, they’d be interested in vigorously testing the witnesses’ stories anyway. What additional information does the student grading scheme supply them with?
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### Author:  [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-people-may-have-been-convicted-so-lets-investigate/515172/20 "2009-10-26T18:44:56Z")
For those interested, it sounds like NPR’s Talk of the Nation will be discussing the issue in their second hour today.
> **[Chicago Prosecutors Investigate Innocence Project](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=114176010)**
>
> Journalism and law students working for the Innocence Project investigate the cases of prisoners who may be falsely imprisoned. Students at Northwestern believe they have found proof of a convicted murderer's innocence. Cook Country prosecutors want...
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