# Innocent words with disturbing etymologies **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 6, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974 "2015-02-06T15:18:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/21 "2015-02-07T15:09:42Z")
The more common spelling of the word is “gyp,” which is generally agreed to be derived from Gypsy. It appeared in American English before British English. The spelling “gip” isn’t as common: > **[gyp | Search Online Etymology Dictionary](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=gyp)** > > The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible... > **[gip | Search Online Etymology Dictionary](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=gip)** > > The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible... ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/22 "2015-02-07T15:56:08Z")
Carol Higgins Clark’s books all have titles with a one syllable past particle of a verb. There was a small uproar over GYPPED. I find the word offensive and tell people its origin when they use it. I once used the word [shiksa](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shiksa) in front of my boss, an Hassidic Jew. He told me the origin and said not to use it in the store, as many Jews find it offensive to women. I agreed. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/23 "2015-02-07T16:07:57Z")
> [@bleach](#): > > Turns out that _sarcasm_ and _sarcoma_ have the same etymologies, namely _meat_. > > Sarcasm has its Greek root in stripping the flesh/meat off something. > > A sarcoma is a ‘fleshy’ tumor of connective tissue. The related word _sarcophagus_ literally means “flesh-eater”. ---
**Author:** ![Recusant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Recusant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recusant)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/24 "2015-02-07T16:44:20Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > With the word seemingly being current also in America, though – I suppose that the victims of the slur, must be the Roma. Well, yes and no. The word, as it’s used (here in the US, at least) is often seen as a slur. Catch is, it’s derived from the word ‘Egyptian’; Egypt being where many believed the Roma ultimately came from (it probably wasn’t; the usual thought is now northwestern India). The victims of using the slur, then, are the Roma; the victims of refusing to, on the other hand, are the Egyptians. This is what happens when you put Joseph Heller in charge of the language. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/25 "2015-02-07T16:59:09Z")
The phrase “Indian summer” has the same idea as “Indian giver”: being given something nice and then having it taken back. Ironic, considering America’s history with the native peoples. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/26 "2015-02-07T17:46:46Z")
Gyp, barbarian and Indian giver aren’t in theme asked for in the OP at all. Those are insulting words and it’s no shock that they have offensive etymologies. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/27 "2015-02-07T17:57:14Z")
Jazz originated in New Orleans Jazz houses, a shortened word from jism. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/28 "2015-02-07T18:01:04Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Gyp, barbarian and Indian giver aren’t in theme asked for in the OP at all. Those are insulting words and it’s no shock that they have offensive etymologies. Right. Bad, Bless, and Filibuster are good examples of what I’m looking for. > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Jazz originated in New Orleans Jazz houses, a shortened word from jism. Have a cite for that one? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/29 "2015-02-07T18:05:27Z")
“Rock ‘n’ roll” was originally a euphemism for sex. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/30 "2015-02-07T18:40:20Z")
Here’s what Wikipedia says about “jazz”: > **[Jazz (word)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_(word))** > > The origin of the word jazz is one of the most sought-after word origins in modern American English. Interest in the word – the American Dialect Society named it the Word of the Twentieth Century in 2000 – has resulted in considerable research and the linguistic history is well documented. "Jazz" began as a West-Coast slang term around 1912. The meaning varied, but the word did not initially refer to music. "Jazz" came to mean "jazz music" in Chicago around 1915. > The similarity of "jazz" to "jas... ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/31 "2015-02-07T19:08:31Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > “Bad” is probably the most common word with a weirdly offensive etymology. There was a word “bæddel” in Old English which meant homosexual or effeminate. At some point people began using it the same way some people now use “gay” as a general term meaning stupid, defective, weak, etc. It then slowly became the standard antonym to “good” in English: > > [bad | Etymology of bad by etymonline](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bad) That certainly puts a different spin on the Michael Jackson song! It is interesting that “bad” eventually came to be used as a slang term meaning not only the opposite of the standard modern meaning (something good or stylish) but also the opposite of the Old English root (impressively tough/menacing). I was surprised to learn from the OED just now that this slang usage is older than I would have guessed; “bad” was used to mean “good” by around the turn of the last century, and was used to mean “dangerous, but in a ‘cool’ way” by 1940. I was a bit skeptical of the etymology of “bulldoze” quoted in the OP, but the OED also says that the term originally referred to a severe or “bull’s dose” of flogging. Hundreds of lashes may be an exaggeration, but one of the 19th century quotes in the OED says “To ‘bull-dose’ a negro in the Southern States means to flog him to death, or nearly to death.” ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/32 "2015-02-07T21:54:54Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Here’s what Wikipedia says about “jazz”: > > [Jazz (word) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_(word)) That’s really interesting! ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/33 "2015-02-08T03:48:01Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > I’m British, and had long imagined that “gip”, to cheat or con, alluded to the people of Egypt. Reason being that in British Empire times, the inhabitants of the more on-the-beaten-track parts of Egypt were seen as tirelessly ingenious in all kinds of enterprises to part from their money, British and other Western folk encountered in their country: in particular, people transiting the Suez Canal. I’d thought “gip” to be a Britishism derived from that: implying some grudging respect for the locals’ skill and dedication re, often, getting visitors’ cash off them and delivering little in return. With the word seemingly being current also in America, though – I suppose that the victims of the slur, must be the Roma. Well, I folk-etymologied it as from “gypsy,” but Wiktionary doesn’t seem to think that’s certain. It could be from “Egypt,” it’s been in English usage for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/34 "2015-02-08T04:11:32Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > Yep, in fact the French word for wound (current and common, not archaic at all) is still _blessure_. I can vouch for that. When I was in Québec a year and a half ago, we watched a lot of news. The first time in that text crawl at the bottom of the screen I saw something like, _“Deux homes sont blessés sur l’autoroute 20…”_, it really threw me for a loop. I pulled out my dictionary, flipped through, and exclaimed, “Wounded? _Blessé_ means wounded?” ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/35 "2015-02-08T04:38:31Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The phrase “Indian summer” has the same idea as “Indian giver”: being given something nice and then having it taken back. > > Ironic, considering America’s history with the native peoples. I don’t think so. The origin is somewhat obscure, but it’s my understanding that the most likely meaning is this–in centuries past, armies would typically fight only from late spring into early fall. During the winter, they went into winter quarters and did not fight at all. The early colonists, once fall had arrived, could rest easy, because they knew that the Indians wouldn’t be attacking for a while. But in years with an Indian Summer, the Indians might be lured back onto the warpath by the unseasonably warm weather. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/36 "2015-02-08T05:07:31Z")
Maybe. But because of the fact that in Indian Summer, Giver and Rubber, “Indian” means false or esatz I’ve always felt there must be some common connection. Never seen anything to back me up on that though. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/37 "2015-02-08T06:31:57Z")
foolsguinea writes: \> Well, I folk-etymologied it as from “gypsy,” but Wiktionary doesn’t seem to think \> that’s certain. It could be from “Egypt,” it’s been in English usage for a while. The gypsies (i.e., the Roma) were so called because some people thought that they came from Egypt (whereas really they came from India). Later, because they were considered (rightly or wrongly) to often be thieves and scammers, to cheat someone financially was called to “gyp” them. “Gipsies” and “gip” are alternate spellings of those words: > **[gypsy | Etymology, origin and meaning of the name gypsy by etymonline](https://www.etymonline.com/word/gypsy)** > > GYPSY Meaning: "Egyptian," from the supposed origin of the people. As an adjective, from 1620s. Compare British gippy… See origin and meaning of gypsy. > **[gyp | Etymology, origin and meaning of gyp by etymonline](https://www.etymonline.com/word/gyp)** > > GYP Meaning: "to cheat, swindle," 1889, American English, traditionally derived from Gypsy (n.). Gyp/gip/jip is… See origin and meaning of gyp. Flyer writes: \> The origin is somewhat obscure, but it’s my understanding that the most likely \> meaning is this–in centuries past, armies would typically fight only from late \> spring into early fall. During the winter, they went into winter quarters and did not \> fight at all. The early colonists, once fall had arrived, could rest easy, because they \> knew that the Indians wouldn’t be attacking for a while. But in years with an \> Indian Summer, the Indians might be lured back onto the warpath by the \> unseasonably warm weather. There are several possible etymologies for the term, and that is one of the more unlikely ones: [http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Indian+summer](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Indian+summer) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/38 "2015-02-08T14:48:50Z")
“Snack” and “snot” are cognates – they share a common origin. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/39 "2015-02-08T22:05:45Z")
“Indian rubber,” more properly “India rubber” refers to the genuine caoutchouc from Asia, freshly tapped from tropical trees. It doesn’t get any more real rubber than that. When the Soviets did not have a reliable source of caoutchouc and had not yet the capacity to make synthetic rubber, they found a solution in the hardy wild dandelion from the steppes of Central Asia and from Tien Shan mountain valleys, _Taraxacum kok-saghyz_. The name _kök sağız_ is Kazakh and means ‘root latex’. So _kok-saghyz_ would be a better synonym for “not real rubber.” I don’t know what you meant by “Indian rubber” but this is what I understand by it. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974/40 "2015-02-08T22:51:12Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > [Assassin](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assassin?s=t) comes from an Islamofascist group that would go on Jihad while high on hashish. Hence, hashishins. Nothing indicates that the Ḥashshāshīn really took hashish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/innocent-words-with-disturbing-etymologies/711974.md?page=3)