# Insane Russian painter **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 3, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655 "2006-12-03T03:00:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/1 "2006-12-03T03:00:12Z")
The following showed up on Digg: [http://duggmirror.com/health/What\_is\_the\_insane\_secret\_of\_this\_painting/](http://duggmirror.com/health/What_is_the_insane_secret_of_this_painting/) Evidently, the painter suffers from a severe mental disorder that is evident in the painting. One student in 15 years was able to pick it out…so, any idea what the clue is? (I encoutered the original thread here: [http://digg.com/health/What\_is\_the\_insane\_secret\_of\_this\_painting](http://digg.com/health/What_is_the_insane_secret_of_this_painting) ) ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/2 "2006-12-03T03:01:21Z")
Oh, a higher res version of the painting is here: [![](https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/shaltai_baltai/7056579/275/275_original.jpg) ](https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/shaltai_baltai/7056579/275/275_original.jpg) (now counts to 60 before pressing submit) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/3 "2006-12-03T03:30:51Z")
I can see possible OCD in the style of the painting. Not neccessarily “insane,” but I notice an obsession with the number three. Three children in each sled, three sleds, three horses pulling each sled, three houses with rows of three windows. It seems like his mind is repeating everything three times. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/4 "2006-12-03T04:03:32Z")
Yeah, that’s been brought up before, but that doesn’t really qualify as ‘out there’. Agoraphobia has been mentioned in one of the threads, and that it’s not the details of the painting the show the illness. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/5 "2006-12-03T06:40:06Z")
Fear of horses with their feet on the ground? I don’t know. I have spent way too much time staring at the picture (and the original the ‘insane’ painter copied). ---
**Author:** ![Frustrated\_Wonderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a4c791/32.png) [@Frustrated\_Wonderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frustrated_Wonderer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/6 "2006-12-03T06:51:36Z")
Are we looking for a specific name of the disease this artist had? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/7 "2006-12-03T06:55:20Z")
I wouldn’t say it was OCD. If it was, then all the things he associated with three would be repeated each time - but there are windows in twos, people in twos, and kids in twos in the background. It’s possible, though, especially since he had a phobia of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/8 "2006-12-03T07:04:45Z")
I read through a bit of the Digg thread, and I like the paranoid schizophrenia idea. It does seem a very accusatory painting. But i’m only saying that because we’ve been told there’s some clue. I can’t just look at it and think “Aha, this is the work of a madman!”. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/9 "2006-12-03T07:14:43Z")
The repetitions of 3 could be part of the defense against the phobia. I’ll be interested to see if this person indeed is “insane” based on the explanation when it’s finally given. The point made in the linked page about the rotated buildings, as well as other speculations, while interesting, are irrelevant in that they are features of the original painting and hence not expressions of the “insane” artist. Presumably the insane expression rests in differences between the original and the copy. Either that, or the professor didn’t know it was a copy and overanalyzed its significance in light of what he already knew about the diagnosis. Missing in the copy: telephone wires. What else? ---
**Author:** ![Frustrated\_Wonderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a4c791/32.png) [@Frustrated\_Wonderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frustrated_Wonderer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/10 "2006-12-03T07:26:33Z")
The professor who knows the answer gave this advice: "don’t look for small details, look at the whole; if you figure out what the phobia was, you’ve got the answer; ask yourself what could have preceded this scene; think of what the place would look like with all the objects removed“ My only nitpick in this quote, is when the professor says “if you figure out what the phobia was, you’ve got the answer”. What a werid statement. Perhaps there is a small clue within this very statement? If you imagine the place without any objects you have nothing, except the people. Unless he considers people objects too, in which case if you remove everything, you have nothing… ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/11 "2006-12-03T07:38:31Z")
My observations a) It’s the middle of the night and it’s full of kids that are making a snowman five times their size b) There is no doors on any of the buildings except for potentially one. c) Shadows are missing and the ones that aren’t are all wrong. d) Everybody is staring at me! e) It’s very repetitive, has a lot of numeric patterns, etc. None of those things are ‘symptoms’ of mental illness. In fact, I believe that this just not translate well from Russian culture which typically has some very odd and generalized ideas about the mentally ill, for example the affinity to the color yellow, purple and green. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/12 "2006-12-03T07:42:00Z")
Oh I didn’t see your post, but if it has to be a phobia, it’s definitely agoraphobia. There’s almost no doors, no paths between houses in the snow, the only door seems to be “blocked” by a baby carriage, and everything else looks very… forced. As if somebodies conception of the outdoors is distorted. It does not in itself imply agoraphobia but it is representative of it. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/13 "2006-12-03T09:26:36Z")
I think the bloke has a phobia about clouds or maybe snowflakes. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/14 "2006-12-03T10:05:16Z")
Forgot to say what I think the clues in the picture are: What bit of sky you can see is clear, even though there’s obviously been a recent snowfall. And, y’know, no snowflakes. That’s what I first noticed when I saw it anyway. Other clues by the prof dude, from this [link](http://www.veryrussian.net/2006/the-mystery-painting-almost-there.html): > [@](#): > > One more clue. Someone made this guess. The painting depicts the Maslenitsa (Shrovetide, the feast on the last day before the Lent — the Brazilian carnival is the same holiday). It’s one of the holidays with pagan roots, and the celebration involves burning a strawman — symbolising, if I remember correctly, the ending winter. Now, could it be that you’re the burning strawman? > > To which the professor allegedly replied, “not a strawman — but close”. > > Also, he said the keywords are water and air. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/15 "2006-12-03T10:22:50Z")
Like **Revenant** said, this artwork doesn’t scream “mentally disturbed” at me any more or less then most other artworks do. And I do know a bit about art and about mental disorders. Yeah, so there are a lot of three’s. That could mean something, and then again it could be the work of an artist unsure of how to do composition and making everything in three’s just to make sure the whole thing wouldn’t be unbalanced. I consider it far more likely that, if there ever was a real professor giving the class a real assignment about psychology using this painting, the assignment was intended to teach them that you can find almost anything in anything\* **if** \*you go looking for it. In that way it is no different from finding messages from the Devil in Beatles song’s played backwards. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/16 "2006-12-03T13:34:14Z")
I’d go for fear of water / drowning. Without any houses etc I reckon the ice looks like a lake - the two skiers on the right side look like they’re standing on a lake-bank. Even the sleds look like the horses are desperately trying to pull them out of some water. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/17 "2006-12-03T13:54:22Z")
What I’d like to know is what reputable branch of science relies upon a single painting as a strong indication, let alone proof, of mental illness. I’m immediately suspicious of this story, and think that even if the painter in question was mentally ill, I don’t see how one could make a logical conclusion between a single painting and mental illness. I think one could twist any sort of symbolism, colour, pattern, isometric positioning, etc. and invent a justification. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/18 "2006-12-03T15:24:19Z")
Quite a few of the guesses can be eliminated by looking at the original the painting is a loose replica of: > **[World Economy Changes and Future Predictions | Current News](https://veryrussian.net/)** > > The current economy highlights a number of factors, it dependents on fiscal policies and public intervention. Presumably, Antanov, the artist who painted that, isn’t crazy. The original displays the same preoccupation with threes, for instance. If there’s any validity, we’re after something evident in the replica which is not evident in the original, unless out professor wants to support a similar diagnosis for Antanov. (The replica is much more ordered, for one thing. The artist has moved shrubbery which was out in the open up against the houses, or placed them in neater rows behind the fences, and eliminated most of the foreground shrubbery. The people are more neatly ordered, too, their postures not being as random. Mean anything? Got me.) ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/19 "2006-12-03T16:06:26Z")
The horses, at least, aren’t necessarily part of an obsession with threes, even if we didn’t have the original painting. That three-horse hitch is apparently traditional in Russia; look up ‘troika’. That said, I can’t see anything particularly crazy about the copy. As **yabob** says, it’s more orderly than the original, and feels more crowded too, but that could be an accident of poor composition. Maybe he’s just a mediocre painter, and the shrink is a harsh critic. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655/20 "2006-12-03T16:07:57Z")
Interesting discussion! I’m almost hoping there IS a satisfying answer and not, line **Una** suggests, an oddity that means something to the teacher, but isn’t logically supportable. (Middle horses would NEVER have a _Green_ Bridal! That’s just crazy talk!) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insane-russian-painter/382655.md?page=2)