# \[insert writer\] killed my favorite character . . . (OPEN SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 13, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089 "2005-10-13T16:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/21 "2005-10-13T19:46:37Z")
I like realism in my entertainment, or at least consistency if it’s fantasy or real far out sci-fi. There usually is a balance, I find, between nothing bad ever really happening and so much bad stuff happening it goes over the top. As long as that balance is kept my suspension of disbelief remains intact, too much either way and I get thrown out of the story. For an example of the former, there’s mainstream American superhero comics. I can’t get involved in any of the stories any more since it’s pretty much a given that no-one will permanently die, bad or good. For the latter, there’s Robin Hobbes’ Assassin trilogy: By the end of the third book the main character has had so much shit thrown at him that when his childhood love gave up on him and married his father-figure I felt more like the author didn’t like her characters than any real pathos. I realise there’s no actual death here, but I think it’s the best example of going overboard with the bad stuff. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/22 "2005-10-13T19:59:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Being terrified is no fun, either, but people still go to horror movies. It can be argued that one purpose of art is to allow us to experience and examine certain emotions in safety. Grief and fear are the two best examples of this: things that no one wants to experience in real life, but which are the driving forces behind most significant drama throughout history. I have a hard time seeing negative reactions like the one described in the OP as anything other than a form of cowardice: people are so terrified of anything bad ever happening that they can’t stand to see it, even in fictionalized form with entirely made up characters. I see it the other way. I’ve had a lot of grief in my life. Loved ones are dead. My husband is extremely ill. I’m surrounded by tragedy. I’m tired of bad things happening, of unforeseen tragedy, of sudden loss. I get to experience those things all day, every day. I’m not a coward for not wanting to be entertained by death. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/23 "2005-10-13T20:26:23Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I see it the other way. > > I’ve had a lot of grief in my life. Loved ones are dead. My husband is extremely ill. I’m surrounded by tragedy. > > I’m tired of bad things happening, of unforeseen tragedy, of sudden loss. I get to experience those things all day, every day. I’m not a coward for not wanting to be entertained by death. I think there’s a difference between choosing to avoid tragic works, and criticizing works for being tragic. I don’t want to watch _Schindler’s List_ every day; sometimes I’d rather watch Looney Tunes. What the OP is talking about, it seems to me, is equivalent of watching _Schindler’s List_ and then complaining it was too sad. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/24 "2005-10-13T20:39:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think there’s a difference between choosing to avoid tragic works, and criticizing works for being tragic. I don’t want to watch _Schindler’s List_ every day; sometimes I’d rather watch Looney Tunes. What the OP is talking about, it seems to me, is equivalent of watching _Schindler’s List_ and then complaining it was too sad. To me, Buffy was closer in spirit to Looney Tunes than to Schindler’s List. With SL, people knew going in what was coming. They could make an informed choice. With Buffy, Tara’s death was a shock and a surprise. It was purposefully shocking. I don’t think it’s fair to say that people knew what they were getting into. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/25 "2005-10-13T20:58:53Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > To me, Buffy was closer in spirit to Looney Tunes than to Schindler’s List. > > With SL, people knew going in what was coming. They could make an informed choice. With Buffy, Tara’s death was a shock and a surprise. It was purposefully shocking. I don’t think it’s fair to say that people knew what they were getting into. They didn’t know what they were getting into? I suppose so, if they’d somehow missed Joyce dying the season before, or Jenny Calender getting her neck snapped just when she and Giles were working things out in season two, or Buffy impaling her One True Love at the end of that story arc, or anything that had been happening over on _Angel_, or everything that had happened in that stunningly (even stultifyingly) depressing season up to that point, or the very first episode of the series, where he sets up that one kid as if he’s going to be a re-occuring character, then kills him forty-five minutes into the pilot, just to achieve his signature shock effect. They were calling him The Master of Pain well before he put a bullet in Tara, and with good reason. The timing and manner of her death may have come as a shock, but the fact that stuff like that happened all the time in the show shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone familiar with the show. ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/26 "2005-10-13T22:55:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They didn’t know what they were getting into? I suppose so, if they’d somehow missed Joyce dying the season before, or Jenny Calender getting her neck snapped just when she and Giles were working things out in season two, or Buffy impaling her One True Love at the end of that story arc, or anything that had been happening over on _Angel_, or everything that had happened in that stunningly (even stultifyingly) depressing season up to that point, or the very first episode of the series, where he sets up that one kid as if he’s going to be a re-occuring character, then kills him forty-five minutes into the pilot, just to achieve his signature shock effect. They were calling him The Master of Pain well before he put a bullet in Tara, and with good reason. The timing and manner of her death may have come as a shock, but the fact that stuff like that happened all the time in the show shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone familiar with the show. I really didn’t want to make this a discussion about BTVS or even Joss in general, but those are valid points, I don’t know why more people don’t realize how deadly the world Whedon’s characters inhabit is. The obervation here that rings closest to what I was asking is this: > [@](#): > > What the OP is talking about, it seems to me, is equivalent of watching Schindler’s List and then complaining it was too sad. I guess a follow up question is – is the fan reaction just louder and more whiney among F&SF fandom than others? ---
**Author:** ![Taran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Taran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taran)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/27 "2005-10-13T23:10:05Z")
> [@ddgryphon](#): > > I guess a follow up question is – is the fan reaction just louder and more whiney among F&SF fandom than others? I’d say that SF types (I include myself here) are just more vocal in general. More inclined to whine, more inclined to rhapsodize, more inclined to react, period, than the general populace. See the various “scary fandom” threads for the other half of this. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/28 "2005-10-13T23:36:33Z")
The quoted complaint in the OP has to be one of the silliest sustained whines I’ve read. Do people want tv shows (or series of books or movies) with inherently dangerous premises (e.g., constantly fighting supernatural forces of evil) in which nobody likeable ever dies? (And dismissing the character Inara in “Firefly” as merely a “hooker” shows that the writer had made a judgement based on igorance.) If I ever make it as a writer . . . I can’t _wait_ to kill off a popular character! ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/29 "2005-10-13T23:56:23Z")
Brandow Jerwa toward the end of the Devil’s Due Press run of “GI Joe” started killing off characters left and right. The series was a continuation of the classic Larry Hama written Marvel “GI Joe” series. During Hama’s run there had been only one instance of Joes getting killed in action. Iconic Joes like Quick Kick, Doc and Breaker (among others) were massacred by Cobra during a mission in the mid-East. This shocked a lot of the fans but was handled in a very serious and dramatic way so it was accepted. The way Jerwa killed joes (culminating in the death of the Joes 2nd female Lady Jaye)was so childish and silly that a lot of fans simply refuse to consider any of the DDP run as Gi Joe canon. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/30 "2005-10-14T00:51:59Z")
I had heard a rumor that John D. Macdonald had a book written entitled **A Black Border for MacGee** in which he kills off Travis. He supposedly threatened to pull it out to kill off the series whenever his publisher got to be too much of a pain in the ass. Macdonald has been dead since 1986, and no one has found it in a trunk, so I guess it’s just an urban legend. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/31 "2005-10-14T01:17:35Z")
I’m another who admires when a writer isn’t afraid to kill off a main character and have them stay dead. Light hearted entertainment is great and all, but then Goku dies yet again and you just want something different. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/32 "2005-10-14T01:21:13Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > The way Jerwa killed joes (culminating in the death of the Joes 2nd female Lady Jaye)was so childish and silly that a lot of fans simply refuse to consider any of the DDP run as Gi Joe canon. As opposed to all those male Lady Jayes they had running around? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/33 "2005-10-14T03:55:46Z")
OK, more Whedon, but in \*Angel \* All the human sidekicks die. OK, maybe Gunn survives, but let’s review: Doyle, Cordy, Lindsay, Lila,(more thorn in side than sidekick), Wesley ☹ , and Fred’s Mostly Dead. Connor makes it, but he has the turbo-vampire ass kicking DNA, so he’s not in the Merely Mortal camp. The survivors are either green or are Undead Americans. Da big meanie!!! ---
**Author:** ![2nd\_Law](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f475e1/32.png) [@2nd\_Law](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2nd_Law)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/34 "2005-10-14T06:38:22Z")
Ian Fleming killed off James Bond at the end of the novel _From Russia With Love_. Rosa Kleb managed to nail him with her curare tipped shoe-spike. Apparently Fleming caught the same level of grief that Doyle got about killing off Holmes, because the next book starts with a discussion of how lucky Bond was that a doctor was nearby with experience in South American piosons, and recognized the symptoms of curare poisoning, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DataZak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@DataZak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataZak)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/35 "2005-10-14T07:06:38Z")
I’ve heard that they killed off Chewbacca in one of the Star Wars books. I don’t know how the fans are taking it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/36 "2005-10-14T07:17:58Z")
I was really peeved when they killed Jadzia Dax. I _hated_ it when Tasha Yar was killed, and in such a stupid fashion. David Weber is another one who kills off major characters. For example, he killed off Prince Rastar in _We Few_, and I’ve heard an bunch of big names get killed in the upcoming Honor Harrington book _At All Costs_. ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/37 "2005-10-14T09:00:07Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > I was really peeved when they killed Jadzia Dax. I _hated_ it when Tasha Yar was killed, and in such a stupid fashion. I was mostly peeved that the death was handled so badly. It was like the writers couldn’t decide whether to make it a purposefully pointless tension-ratcheting death (a la Whedon) or an emotional drawn-out death (a la Peter Jackson) and ended up blandifying it into neither. One of the low points of an otherwise excellent show. Regarding the quotation in the OP, I disagree that the events in question “destroyed” the characters in any way, and I’m speaking as a fan of both Tara and Spike. But then, I’m one of those odd Buffy fans who considers season six to be among the show’s best, so what do I know? 😉 Inara reduced to a “hooker with a heart of gold” is just plain incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/38 "2005-10-14T09:01:53Z")
[QUOTE=Tarrsk] I was mostly peeved that the death was handled so badly. It was like the writers couldn’t decide whether to make it a purposefully pointless tension-ratcheting death (a la Whedon) or an emotional drawn-out death (a la Peter Jackson) and ended up blandifying it into neither. One of the low points of an otherwise excellent show. [quote] Whoops… I’m referring here to the death of Jadzia Dax. I never actually saw Yar’s death, although I’ve heard numerous horror stories about it. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/39 "2005-10-14T09:15:18Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > I was really peeved when they killed Jadzia Dax. I _hated_ it when Tasha Yar was killed, and in such a stupid fashion. > > David Weber is another one who kills off major characters. For example, he killed off Prince Rastar in _We Few_, and I’ve heard an bunch of big names get killed in the upcoming Honor Harrington book _At All Costs_. It always peevs me when a character is killed off (in a tv series) and you get the impression that this wasn’t the writers idea, but the actor actress is moving on to pastures new. I know this is unavoidable as people will always change careers eventually, but it still peeves me. Jadzia was a case in point. Surely that was an actress motivated killing. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089/40 "2005-10-14T14:19:56Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > Aaaack! I’m only half-way through the series! > > Actually, I couldn’t think of any specific examples offhand, but O’Brian is certainly an author who doesn’t shy away from killing off sympathetic characters. I’m so sorry, I should have spoilered it. What book are you on? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insert-writer-killed-my-favorite-character-open-spoilers/326089.md?page=3)