# Insurance companies are sexist! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 24, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130 "2003-06-24T21:01:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mini-Thud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Mini-Thud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mini-Thud)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/1 "2003-06-24T21:01:28Z")
Now, perhaps someone can explain this to me… I’m a male, so my insurance on my car (no matter WHAT kind of car I have) is automatically going to be higher from the start than it would be for a womans. Just because I’m a guy, the insurance companies can stereo-type me into being like the majority of the other “guys” and want to drive fast and wrecklessly. Yet there are woman who drive like that too… infact woman are the butt of many bad driver jokes. Anyway, my question is. Why is it legal for the insurance companies to stereo-type and be sexist against men, yet no other companies are allowed to do so? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/2 "2003-06-24T21:09:18Z")
Yes, insurance companies are sexist. They are permitted to base their fees on the statistical likelyhood of the event which they insure against happening. Auto accident statistics clearly indicate that women, on average, are safer drivers. So they get better insurance. It is legal because it is reasonable for insurance companies to do this. A stereotype is a quality unfairly ascribed to a group. Saying that male drivers are involved in more accidents than female drivers, as a whole, is not a stereotype, because it is true. It is not limited to auto insurance. Health insurance companies will charge more for a 65 year old smoker than a non-smoking 20 year old. The former is far more likely to have a heart attack. Similarly, a fire insurance company will charge a lot more to protect a 100 year old rotten wood building than a brand new concrete and steal one. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/3 "2003-06-24T21:12:21Z")
I’m expecting a loud chorus of “Because thats the way it is!”. My wife worked in the insurance industry and could never get/give a good reason why. The insurance people will talk at length about “risk” and how they need to cover their ass and such, and how “nobody is forcing you purchase their product, so you have no-one to blame but yourself!”. The sad fact is, that yes indeed someone (namely the state I live in) mandates that I need to purchase insurance! Eh, I got no answer for ya! I’ll just look forward to the song and dance to come… ---
**Author:** ![Mini-Thud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Mini-Thud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mini-Thud)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/4 "2003-06-24T21:17:57Z")
Those things are okay, just like having a sports car makes your insurance higher. Its reasonable. And I don’t see how its NOT stereo-typing. Its like saying that you don’t want to be friends with anyone who has their hair dyed a bright color, because generally these types of people are “bad news” (I don’t know if that is true or not, just using it as a scenario). Saying that in GENERAL male drivers are more dangerous is okay, because well… we are. But to charge every single male out there more (regardless of what he has done, and what kind of car he has) because some previous males did something stupid is not right. Isn’t that what stereo-typing is? Looking at a majority, and saying okay… the majority of the people that do this, do this, therefore we will say that anyone who has done that, must suffer these penalties as well, regardless of their actions… Sorry if that was a little confusing, kind of got jumbled together… ---
**Author:** ![BlueMit11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@BlueMit11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueMit11)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/5 "2003-06-24T21:28:12Z")
Saying that someone is “bad news” is a little less specific than saying someone is likely to get into an accident. As **friedo** pointed at, insurance companies don’t focus on a specific trait and charge based on that, they focus on a number of factors which they have determined to be relevant in causing that thing which they are insuring against. I really can’t explain much further than **friedo** because he did a good job, I think you’re just not getting his post; but it’s not stereotyping or unfair because they’re looking at a number of factors, not just one, and these factors have been determined to cause TTWTAIA. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/6 "2003-06-24T21:31:58Z")
> [@](#): > > And I don’t see how its NOT stereo-typing. I just explained to you why it is not stereotyping. Stereotypes are false. Stereotypes are conclusions drawn without evidence. Insurance companies employ armies of accountants and mathematicians to examine the available evidence and draw logical, mathematical conclusions about what risks are greater or lesser than others. > [@](#): > > But to charge every single male out there more (regardless of what he has done, and what kind of car he has) because some previous males did something stupid is not right. Isn’t that what stereo-typing is? No. This isn’t a matter of criminal law, it is a matter of risk. You pose a greater risk to the insurance company by virtue of the fact that you are male instead of female. You will therefore have to pay higher insurance. Also, you are incorrect about how auto insurance premiums are determined. Past behavior on your part is a factor. People who are involved in an accident are statistically more likely to get involved in an accident again than someone who has never been in an accident. So if you wrap your Corvair around a telephone pole, expect your premiums to go up. Is that an unfair “stereotype” of people who have been in auto accidents? ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/7 "2003-06-24T21:35:01Z")
**Why is it legal for the insurance companies to stereo-type and be sexist against men, yet no other companies are allowed to do so?** Because they’re too busy discriminating against women? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/8 "2003-06-24T21:44:48Z")
We discussed this in depth in this thread: [Auto Insurance discrimination](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77659) ---
**Author:** ![askol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@askol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askol)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/9 "2003-06-24T21:45:03Z")
A stereotype is an assertion that what is true for a mojority of a group is true for an individual. The insurance company is stereotyping the OP because he is male. The insuarance company also has loads of statistical data to back up their stereotype. Is it fair? I dunno. Fair for who? Why should an insuarance company charge males the same rate as females is females are safer drivers? Just because something is a stereotype, doesn’t mean it is false. Heck, if it were false, it probably won’t be a stereotype for very long. Oh yeah, other companies are allowed to discriminate between sexes. Just not when they are hiring, firing, promoting, or rewarding. Ever hear of male-only golf courses? Female only gyms? ---
**Author:** ![Mini-Thud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Mini-Thud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mini-Thud)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/10 "2003-06-24T21:51:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\*Is that an unfair “stereotype” of people who have been in auto accidents? \*\* No, because that is based on ONE person alone, and their previous actions. The stereo-type that I (because I am a male) am more likely to be in an accident, when I have NEVER been in any type of accident whatsoever in my entire lifetime, is not fair. ---
**Author:** ![askol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@askol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askol)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/11 "2003-06-24T21:51:11Z")
Oh, and by rewarding, I meant rewarding employees. ---
**Author:** ![Mini-Thud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Mini-Thud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mini-Thud)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/12 "2003-06-24T21:56:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by askol \* > \*\*Oh yeah, other companies are allowed to discriminate between sexes. Just not when they are hiring, firing, promoting, or rewarding. Ever hear of male-only golf courses? Female only gyms? \*\* Actually I haven’t heard of those, but I’m sure they do exist… no doubts there. But thats a different case, as its not… Males pay 1000$ to get into the golf club Females pay 1500$ to get into the golf club (based on the assumption that females are worse golfers, and could potentially cause harm to the course or other players.) Just a scenario… I know it sounds crazy. hehe ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/13 "2003-06-24T21:58:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jukaal \* > \*\*No, because that is based on ONE person alone, and their previous actions. The stereo-type that I (because I am a male) am more likely to be in an accident, when I have NEVER been in any type of accident whatsoever in my entire lifetime, is not fair. \*\* Again you are missing the point. It is not based on the single person who got in an accident and may, in fact, never get in another one. It is based on the class of people who have been in an accident. This class is no different than the class of males, or Toyota owners. Teenagers and persons under 30 years of age also pay higher insurance because they are inexperienced, prone to speeding and to being drunk. Saying a 25 year old is more likely to speed than a 40 year old is not a stereotype, it is a fact. On the other hand, saying “Bob is 25, I bet he’s a speeder,” would be a stereotype. One is a judgment of an individual that is not based on fact, the other is a judgment of a class of individuals which is based on hard evidence. > [@](#): > > A stereotype is an assertion that what is true for a mojority of a group is true for an individual. The insurance company is stereotyping the OP because he is male. The insuarance company also has loads of statistical data to back up their stereotype. I disagree with your definition of stereotype. A common stereotype is that Jews are greedy. But there is no evidence to suggest that Jews, as a whole, are any more or less greedy than gentiles. Websters gives a perfectly clear definition: > [@](#): > > a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/14 "2003-06-24T21:59:16Z")
I don’t buy the fact that just because statistics can back it that it’s okay or legal. Statistics can back a lot of sexist and racist data but there is no way an insurance company would be allowed to charge higher premiums to say Afro-Americans (just an example) if the data proved that they were most certainly without a reasonable doubt statisticaly a higher risk. It just wouldn’t happen and justifiably so. So why is it okay to be sexist against young white males? ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/15 "2003-06-24T22:05:32Z")
If insurance is solely based on actuarial science (historical/statistical analysis), when can we expect a more precise determination of risk as a function of race/ethnicity/income/education? Differentiating by sex is permitted, but not by “race” or other identified variables? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/16 "2003-06-24T22:08:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t buy the fact that just because statistics can back it that it’s okay or legal. Statistics can back a lot of sexist and racist data but there is no way an insurance company would be allowed to charge higher premiums to say Afro-Americans (just an example) if the data proved that they were most certainly without a reasonable doubt statisticaly a higher risk. It just wouldn’t happen and justifiably so. So why is it okay to be sexist against young white males? African Americans are more likely to contract certain genetic diseases than white people. (And vice-versa). Health insurance rates are set accordingly. The insurance industry is subject to a great deal of scrutiny, and practices without a basis in fact are frowned upon by regulatory agencies. In addition, they are simply not profitable. It is to the insurer’s advantage to have as best an understanding of risk as possible. ---
**Author:** ![askol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@askol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askol)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/17 "2003-06-24T22:08:48Z")
I was once told that the primary reason that insurance companies didn’t keep track of race when it came to insurance is that race is not very measurable. No cite, only an anecdote, but I find it interesting, at least. Almost everyone in the US is of mixed-race to some degree, and quantifying all of that would be a nightmare. Do you change someone’s premium if they get a tan? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/18 "2003-06-24T22:11:57Z")
Amen, **Hampshire**. The only reason insurance companies _don’t_ discriminate on the basis of race is that the law prohibits it. This is why we need stringent government regulation of the insurance industry; because they cannot be trusted to act in the best interest of society, only in their own narrow financial interest. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/19 "2003-06-25T13:22:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fear Itself \* > \*\*Amen, **Hampshire**. The only reason insurance companies _don’t_ discriminate on the basis of race is that the law prohibits it. This is why we need stringent government regulation of the insurance industry; because they cannot be trusted to act in the best interest of society, only in their own narrow financial interest. \*\* Your usage of “discriminate” is technically inaccurate. The term should be differentiate, as in differentiating between/among populations based on their measured risk behaviors. BTW, what is “the best interest of society”? How do you operationalize that? If “race” is not measurable, askol, please contact thousands of demographers and other social scientists worldwide. BTW, even if this construct is imprecise, I’m willing to bet untold millions of Americans are not “multi-racial,” as you seem to define it. ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130/20 "2003-06-25T14:42:25Z")
Ok, try this on… I pay more for car insurance because I’m a guy… However, when I asked my health insurance agent at work why premiums go down till your 40 and then go up he said it was for pregnancy. When I informed him that I am male and therefore couldn’t get pregnant so why was I paying for it? He said that the insurance company spreads the risk around and would not split male/female. The lesson here is that it is perfectly fine to charge males more when the stats show they are more expensive to insure but that males need to subsidize the female rates when females cost more to insure. To test this theory, I inquired about life insurance. (females should pay higher health but lower life insurance). Sure enough, there was a male/female split where males payed higher rates for life insurance. The insurance agent then passed on answering that question when I brought that up. To me, it doesn’t matter since the same is true at my wife’s company. What I lose is gained there. However, the single male is getting screwed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-companies-are-sexist/184130.md?page=2)