# Insurance company poopyheads **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151 "2009-07-07T01:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/181 "2009-07-15T22:18:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > But that’s not what you said upthread:Which is a fatuous tautology; responsible people are always prepared, so those who are not prepared for everything are irresponsible. If you are 52, you sure haven’t learned much in those years, because you sound like a naive 20-something. You will need to explain your confusion over those two quotes, since they are both about responsible people planning ahead and not expecting others to support them in times of trouble. If it is because you are see “always prepared” as some black and white physical thing, then let me enlighten you - it also means that the responsible are always prepared to deal with what happens without whining around that others should be taking care of them. Still doesn’t explain your confusion over the fact that we have enough insurance and savings to live on and rebuild should a tornado (in S Cal??) take off with our house. If nothing else, the land that house sits on is worth far more than the house itself. > [@](#): > > For the record, I am older than you, Honey. Then you should know better - you should be way past your idealistic phase of life. I suppose if you have never had any serious issues in your life, maybe you will always be idealistic, dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/182 "2009-07-15T22:18:45Z")
**curlcoat** , it seems your philosophy of life can be summed up thusly: “I’ve done OK in my life through hard work and planning. If someone falls on hard times, it is clearly their own damn fault, since they obviously did not work hard or plan. If they worked hard or planned, they would be OK like me. Fuck them.” I feel sorry for you. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/183 "2009-07-15T22:27:06Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **curlcoat** , it seems your philosophy of life can be summed up thusly: > > “I’ve done OK in my life through hard work and planning. If someone falls on hard times, it is clearly their own damn fault, since they obviously did not work hard or plan. If they worked hard or planned, they would be OK like me. Fuck them.” > > I feel sorry for you. No need since I haven’t said anything of the sort. You want my philosphy on life? Earn everything you get. That’s it. People who support the taxpayer coughing up for a multi-billion dollar experiment seem to think that just because someone is a human being, they “deserve” cheap healthcare. Unless they are me. Or a rich person. Or a convicted murderer. Or whatever your personal bias is. You don’t honestly believe that every human in this country deserves full, taxpayer-funded healthcare do you? Or that it is a good idea to drag everyone down to the lowest average? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/184 "2009-07-15T23:02:34Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Then you should know better - you should be way past your idealistic phase of life. You say that as if idealism is an unavoidable, temporary condition to be endured, like menopause. I am a confirmed idealist, and considering the alternative, I consider myself lucky. Contrary to your narrow little world, it is not an over-abundance of idealism that is holding America back from its full potential. > [@](#): > > I suppose if you have never had any serious issues in your life, maybe you will always be idealistic, dunno. Yeah, my life has been a bowl of fuckin’ cherries. If it wasn’t for my wife’s incurable, progressive, degenerative auto-immune disease that is slowly killing her, I’d be on top of the fuckin’ world. I hope you never see half of what I have. **“Dunno”**. That pretty much sums up every thing you have learned from 52 years on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/185 "2009-07-16T00:23:23Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > BTW, if a tornado came by and took out our house, and my husband’s place of work (doubtful, since he doesn’t work at a mall) we would still have money to live on until insurance rebuilt the house. That is some of what responsible people do. How about a tornado, followed by a flood in the place you are living while your house is being repaired a month later? And money to live on while you’re unemployed AND fixing a house up AND restoring all your possessions? I see - only WEALTHY people are responsible according to you. If you’re middle class or poor you are, by your definition, irresponsible. Do you tell people who can’t afford to buy bread to eat cake, too? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/186 "2009-07-16T00:27:24Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > EVERYONE has to pay into it? You mean like the almost half of the population that doesn’t pay any federal income taxes at all? How are those people paying into it? Hell, the plan announced this afternoon is that a surcharge on people making \> $1M will pay for it. EVERYONE? OK, important point here - there’s how **I** would do this, and there’s how the _current administration_ will do it. They aren’t necessarily the same thing. In fact, I’d guarantee they aren’t. Again, the “don’t pay taxes” meme is bullshit - even those who _don’t_ pay Federal income tax STILL have to pay social security tax - another program everyone has to pay into. You can NOT get out of paying that (unless you work for the railroads, which have a separate but comparable benefit). So… make the healthcare tax another tax you can NOT get out of. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/187 "2009-07-16T00:29:59Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Even now, comfortably middle class with apparently plenty of retirement funds, **I am still very cheap** and refuse to waste money on anything. I can certainly believe THAT! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/188 "2009-07-16T00:32:19Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > [http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0](http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0)…-bankruptcies/ Heres an article showing that even with health insurance you are vulnerable. > > This would apply to me if I depended on insurance to pay my bills. I don’t. So… when you get sick you pay for all of it entirely out of pocket? No Medicaid, Medicare, _no insurance at all?_ You have the money to do that? If that is the case, then you are NOT middle class - you are wealthy. Or fooling yourself very, very badly. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/189 "2009-07-16T00:37:02Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > And? The average age for women to get breast cancer is apparently 50 - “you” have no retirement funds or other assests? “You” are now on the street? AVERAGE age is 50 - there are _certainly_ women in their 20’s, 30’s, and 40’s who get breast cancer. > [@](#): > > Then “you” ride it out, tho this is obviously a different “you” than above, since I can’t imagine a 50 year old is still paying off student loans. I have one sister who is getting her master’s in education in her late 40’s as her prior degree is now obsolete. She will have student loans in her 50’s. My eldest surviving sister just completed medical training at 51 (she entered medical school in her mid-40’s). She has student loans. Not everyone in their 50’s are sitting on their ass collecting a government check, you know, some 50 year olds get up off their ass and go to work every day. > [@](#): > > You may not like thinking that a large portion of people going thru bankruptcy probably brought it on themselves, but the facts seem to support that they did. Sure… having the NERVE to get sick when they aren’t millionaires! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/190 "2009-07-16T00:38:31Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You don’t honestly believe that every human in this country deserves full, taxpayer-funded healthcare do you? Yes, I really truly honestly DO believe that! ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/191 "2009-07-16T02:11:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Again, the “don’t pay taxes” meme is bullshit - even those who _don’t_ pay Federal income tax STILL have to pay social security tax - another program everyone has to pay into. You can NOT get out of paying that (unless you work for the railroads, which have a separate but comparable benefit). So… make the healthcare tax another tax you can NOT get out of. The proposal is to raise income taxes, not SS taxes. And only on those making greater than $350k/yr. So not everyone will be paying this healthcare tax, really only a small percentage of people will be paying. Not EVERYONE, per your claim, not even if you repeat it over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/192 "2009-07-16T02:43:31Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > All that (rather biased) site showed was that having a serious illness contributed to the bankruptcies (which these days doesn’t mean what it used to). No mention of anything else that created the situation where there was no money to cover the expenses. How many of these “healthcare caused” bankruptcies were really just the case of the last straw on the camel’s back? I’ll back this up - I work for a bankruptcy Trustee in NW Indiana (Hi Broomstick!) and I study bankruptcy Schedules for a living, and have for 12+ years. In my area of the country, which includes very low income and very high income areas, the biggest cause of bankruptcy is credit card debt. Period. Say I have 100 new cases in a month. 90% of those are from people with tens of thousands in credit card debt. And while it is _possible_ that they are paying meds with their Visa, they ain’t doing it with their WalMart, Target and mall store cards. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/193 "2009-07-16T02:56:16Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > The proposal is to raise income taxes, not SS taxes. And only on those making greater than $350k/yr. So not everyone will be paying this healthcare tax, really only a small percentage of people will be paying. Not EVERYONE, per your claim, not even if you repeat it over and over. One more time - **I** was talking about the way **I** would do it. If Obama and company want to do this in a completely retarded fashion _I have no control over that_ (barring writing my Congress critter and expressing my opinion, which I have been known to do). ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/194 "2009-07-16T03:41:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > One more time - **I** was talking about the way **I** would do it. If Obama and company want to do this in a completely retarded fashion _I have no control over that_ (barring writing my Congress critter and expressing my opinion, which I have been known to do). I support you contacting your Senators and Congressman to oppose this travesty. Let us know how it goes. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/195 "2009-07-16T09:20:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You say that as if idealism is an unavoidable, temporary condition to be endured, like menopause. I am a confirmed idealist, and considering the alternative, I consider myself lucky. Contrary to your narrow little world, it is not an over-abundance of idealism that is holding America back from its full potential. Yeah, my life has been a bowl of fuckin’ cherries. If it wasn’t for my wife’s incurable, progressive, degenerative auto-immune disease that is slowly killing her, I’d be on top of the fuckin’ world. I hope you never see half of what I have. OK, you have a horrible life. And? How does this apply to the subject, other than frustration is apparently getting to you. As for the idealism, yes I view it as something to be avoided, since I think realism is a much more, er, realistic way to live. > [@](#): > > **“Dunno”**. > > That pretty much sums up every thing you have learned from 52 years on the planet. From an idealistic point of view, I suppose so, but from a realist’s point of view? I’ve learned a heck of a lot. Such as idealism in govenment tends to result in flawed, expensive programs that don’t really benefit anyone. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/196 "2009-07-16T09:27:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > How about a tornado, followed by a flood in the place you are living while your house is being repaired a month later? > > And money to live on while you’re unemployed AND fixing a house up AND restoring all your possessions? I see - only WEALTHY people are responsible according to you. If you’re middle class or poor you are, by your definition, irresponsible. OK, let’s get real here. Tornados (of the kind that destroy houses) are essentially unknown in S Cal, and I don’t live in anything close to a flood zone. So, that leaves the house burning down, which is covered by insurance. As for restoring all of our possessions - covered by insurance. Yes, there would be a deductible and things they wouldn’t cover, but that is what savings are for. As for unemployed, I already am so that isn’t a factor. But let’s say that our house burned down, my husband was laid off and, what? I got cancer? all in six months time. How often do you think such scenarios happen? Often enough that we should create this billion dollar “safety net” you want so badly? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/197 "2009-07-16T09:32:31Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I can certainly believe THAT! And it is something to be proud of. Many people would be far better off if they had a larger dose of “cheap” in their lives, or at the very least understood the concept of a budget. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/198 "2009-07-16T09:43:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… when you get sick you pay for all of it entirely out of pocket? No Medicaid, Medicare, _no insurance at all?_ You have the money to do that? I have the money to pay my bills for six months, in savings. I don’t depend on insurance to pay my mortgage, etc, nor do I expect it to pay all of my medical care. Perhaps that is why people get into trouble financially when someone in the family gets sick - they expect that the insurance company, the government or Santa Claus will cover all the bills. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/199 "2009-07-16T09:51:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I have one sister who is getting her master’s in education in her late 40’s as her prior degree is now obsolete. She will have student loans in her 50’s. > > My eldest surviving sister just completed medical training at 51 (she entered medical school in her mid-40’s). She has student loans. > > Not everyone in their 50’s are sitting on their ass collecting a government check, you know, some 50 year olds get up off their ass and go to work every day. And apparently some, like your sisters, decide the thing to do is get even further into debt and go to school. Instead of working? > [@](#): > > Sure… having the NERVE to get sick when they aren’t millionaires! :rolleyes: Someday you will think with your brain and not with your emotions. Many people weather a serious illness/injury without going bankrupt and without being millionaires. Right now, between my husband and I we are absorbing several hundred dollars a month in medical expenses not covered by insurance. I could easily spend several hundred more to make my conditions easier to live with, but I choose thriftiness over comfort. > [@](#): > > **Originally Posted by curlcoat > You don’t honestly believe that every human in this country deserves full, taxpayer-funded healthcare do you?** > > Yes, I really truly honestly DO believe that! Wow. You don’t have any trouble spending other people’s money, do you? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/200 "2009-07-16T09:55:20Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I’ll back this up - I work for a bankruptcy Trustee in NW Indiana (Hi Broomstick!) and I study bankruptcy Schedules for a living, and have for 12+ years. > > In my area of the country, which includes very low income and very high income areas, the biggest cause of bankruptcy is credit card debt. Period. > > Say I have 100 new cases in a month. 90% of those are from people with tens of thousands in credit card debt. And while it is _possible_ that they are paying meds with their Visa, they ain’t doing it with their WalMart, Target and mall store cards. **Tens of thousands??!!?** Wow. I was being generous thinking it was just a couple of thousand or so. What the heck do you buy at WalMart or Target that runs up that kind of debt? :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151.md?page=11)