# Insurance company poopyheads **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151 "2009-07-07T01:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/101 "2009-07-09T23:36:12Z")
> [@Cemetery\_Savior](#): > > If a Government run program is run so well, what’s wrong with Medicaid? It may be that you don’t get to select your doctor. Then again, not all docs accept Medicare, either. Actually, you DO get to select your doctor under either Medicare or Medicaid - I don’t know where this meme came from that with a government plan you won’t have a choice of doctor when reality demonstrates otherwise. The main problem with Medicaid from a patient’s point of view is that there are people who need medical care, can’t get private insurance, and yet don’t qualify for Medicaid. The main problem with Medicaid from a provider’s viewpoint is that the reimbursement rate is lower than for private insurance plans, which is part of the reason not all doctors accept Medicaid. However, many do. ---
**Author:** ![Cemetery\_Savior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/102 "2009-07-09T23:39:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually, you DO get to select your doctor under either Medicare or Medicaid - I don’t know where this meme came from that with a government plan you won’t have a choice of doctor when reality demonstrates otherwise. > > The main problem with Medicaid from a patient’s point of view is that there are people who need medical care, can’t get private insurance, and yet don’t qualify for Medicaid. The main problem with Medicaid from a provider’s viewpoint is that the reimbursement rate is lower than for private insurance plans, which is part of the reason not all doctors accept Medicaid. However, many do. Sorry…you get to pick your doctor, but not all doctors accept Medicaid and/or Medicare. Error in set definition. -Cem ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/103 "2009-07-10T02:06:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > This is not true, and I have already posted a cite supporting that. Your insurance premiums are higher because hospitals increase their rates for all services, including those paid by your insurance company, to pay for people who use the ER as their primary care. They are not paid for solely by your taxes, they cause your premiums to go up. If they all had insurance, the free market would cause your insurance premiums to fall. Eh, I’m not so sure how much it would affect insurance premiums. That is just hospitals, and there will always be “deadbeat” expenses. And, no matter what the hospital charges, the insurance company is only going to pay whatever the contracted fee is for that DRG code (unless things have changed radically since I last paid medical claims). Your cite just went to a Google listing, so I’m not sure which one you wanted to use to support that premiums are higher because hospitals are getting so many people thru their ER that don’t pay. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/104 "2009-07-10T02:38:31Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Or maybe I was just competent at following instructions and completing paperwork accurately - which was pretty much what my job consisted of and what I was paid to do. Which, of course, had nothing to do with it. If you worked for a surgeon and he assisted at a surgery, if his bill hit Medicare before the primary surgeon’s bill, his would be denied. What is more likely is that you were working for a GP’s office - those simple sorts of claims were not the ones that caused issues for the most part. > [@](#): > > Except not ALL of Medicare went private, and my parents certainly never took the private option with Medicare - they stuck with the government issue all the way. OK - so? > [@](#): > > You don’t have to - but don’t expect us to take you seriously if you won’t even look at cites in a thread. And I should take someone seriously who just sticks a cite in a thread and says “see, I’m right!” without quoting the part they think applies. If you want to make a point and back it up with a cite, it seems that it falls to you to point out what part of the link you think applies, and not expect me to go digging thru it. > [@](#): > > If it won’t cover his health conditions what the FUCK good is it? I’m snipping the rest of that rant because your posts are always way too long anyway. If you wish to be uninsured for _everything_, that is your choice but some of us are smart enough to know that it is entirely possible that other medical problems could arise. You seem to feel that because your husband has on-going medical problems, someone else should be paying for them. Who is it that you want to pay - me? Your next door neighbor? These things that you demand be paid for by the government - you do know that it comes from the pockets of the average citizen, right? If so why is it that you _expect_ that I should consider your husband more important than mine? We have bills too you know. Or is it that you just think that everyone who is in a better place financially than you are should be drug down too? > [@](#): > > It really is in your self-interest to help maintain the health of people like my husband even if it costs you a few pennies a month because if you A few pennies a month…:rolleyes: > [@](#): > > And once again you are _assuming_ that we have _always_ been poor and will continue to be poor - Do you read? What I said was clearly set in the here and now. > [@](#): > > And, despite being officially poor, I STILL have to pay taxes - in fact, since most of my income comes from being an independent contractor these days I’m paying taxes _quarterly_. Oh joy. So please, until you’re living off a food budget of $25-30 per person per week in the household at today’s food prices don’t lecture me about how painful it is to pay taxes on top of it. Cry me a river. I spend many years living on less than a dollar a day for food and I am not going to go back there just because you seem to think it is unfair that I have insurance. > [@](#): > > I paid taxes when I was middle class and making a good salary with the expectation that if I fell on hard times society would provide a safety net. I don’t see a problem with that. For that matter, with you collecting SSDI, _you_ are taking advantage of that safety net which, yes, you helped to pay for. So why are you upset that, given my husband’s very real health issues, society is helping us to pay for the insurance and health care necessary to keep him healthy and not cost even more? This has nothing to do with what I said. I have no problem with your state providing you with insurance. > [@](#): > > And you know what? It’s not your place to make that determination about me. Or anyone else. I’m not. I’m telling you that no matter what anyone’s problem or history is, I am not happy with being told that I must pay to provide yet another government handout, and I will resist it as much as I can. > [@](#): > > No, you have no way of knowing - it’s that you _default assumption_ is that everyone not you is irresponsible and undeserving that I find so sickening. Which, of course, I have never said. > [@](#): > > No, I post-judged you based on statements not only in this thread but in prior threads on this subject. No, you pre-judge, or you jump to the most negative conclusion you possibly can. Such as the previous paragraph - just because I said at some point during these insurance discussions that there are far too many people who get into financial trouble because of irresponsibility, you now state that I have said that _all_ such people are “irresponsible and undeserving”. Which really isn’t all that surprising - emotional people do tend to exaggerate. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/105 "2009-07-10T02:55:28Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Again, speaking of evidence, do you have anything other than anecdotes or stories from disgruntled consumers of healthcare in Canada or the UK? No, I don’t because I don’t think that anyone who is actually in a position to be implimenting a UHC in this country should be looking at Canada or the UK anyway. I just don’t see how one can compare a smaller country (UK) or population (Canada), who have both had UHCs for decades, to the US with the issues we have today. Besides, you want me to cite that I have heard grumblings from friends in the UK and Canada? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/106 "2009-07-10T03:03:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You think it’s an open question whether there are people who are too poor to afford health insurance in America? :rolleyes: I’d say it’s an open question whether there are 46 million people in the US who only have money for food and shelter, but don’t qualify for Medicaid. I personally think that a big chunk of that 46 million are choosing to do something with their money (other than necessities) than buy insurance. It is probably very true of young people. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/107 "2009-07-10T03:07:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **curlcoat** doesn’t want socialized medicine because it doesn’t fit her worldview, and doesn’t care whether or not it works. Which is fair enough, I suppose, but ultimately meaningless, since the system is broken and single-payer healthcare is the only plausible fix. No, **Curlcoat** doesn’t even have a worldview, and she doesn’t like socialized medicine because it would be run by the government. **Curlcoat** does not trust the government to be able to do anything efficiently and without graft. **Curlcoat** also doesn’t think that the current system is broken so badly that it cannot be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/108 "2009-07-10T03:10:01Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > **Curlcoat** does not trust the government to be able to do anything efficiently and without graft. I feel the same about for-profit insurance corporations. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/109 "2009-07-10T03:11:31Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Besides, you want me to cite that I have heard grumblings from friends in the UK and Canada? 😕 Well, if they’re anything like [what you heard](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=503766&page=2) last time… > [@](#): > > I don’t know about the rest of those countries, but the Canada I knew even 10 years ago and the Canada my husband was born in doesn’t have hundreds of thousands of people laying around expecting the government to take care of them. The Canadians I know take care of themselves, live responsible lives and all that. > > The US probably has more people sitting around on the dole than there are people living in Canada. The US is a country where those “without” expect those “with” to give them things simply because they want them, because they have this idea that they “deserve” these things. Without earning them in any way. > > The Canadian government doesn’t have a history of (that I know of) paying for $500 toilet seats, useless wars and all the other crap the US wastes taxpayer money on. The Canadian government doesn’t have a history of lack of success in running nationwide health insurance plans like the US does with Medicaid and Medicare. > > Using other countries as examples of whether or not national insurance would work cannot ignore the differences between those countries and the US. It’s like saying that very little insulation in a home’s walls will work everywhere because it works here where the temperature range is 40 degrees to 80 degrees. Let me lay this out for you simply. You, I, and everyone else who is a net taxpayer are already shouldering the burden of the cost of care for the indigent and un- or underinsured. Since we’re not getting rid of Medicaid anytime soon, it would make sense for us to see if we can work out some economies of scale here. Single-payer systems in countries with minimal levels of government malfeasance (like ours, believe it or not) result in a lower per capita cost for roughly equivalent standards of care. Therefore, single-payer healthcare in America is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/110 "2009-07-10T03:34:16Z")
> [@Cemetery\_Savior](#): > > In addition to the thoughts I posted earlier, why not raise the allowable poverty definition to allow more Medicaid patients? If a Government run program is run so well, what’s wrong with Medicaid? It may be that you don’t get to select your doctor. Then again, not all docs accept Medicare, either. This I would accept far faster than a universal government run health plan. I don’t know why it is that people who want to push a UHC on all of us won’t support loosening the Medicaid requirements. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/111 "2009-07-10T03:38:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I feel the same about for-profit insurance corporations. Those insurance corporations have more controls on them, that I can use, than the government. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/112 "2009-07-10T03:40:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Single-payer systems in countries with minimal levels of government malfeasance (like ours, believe it or not) result in a lower per capita cost for roughly equivalent standards of care. Therefore, single-payer healthcare in America is a good idea. Sorry, I have already said that I don’t think that comparing countries with radically lower populations, who have had a UHC in place for decades, is a dumb idea. I don’t see what is gained by beating that dead horse. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/113 "2009-07-10T04:00:38Z")
You don’t think it’s a dumb idea? Excellent. Let’s get on with it then. To address what I think you meant: that doesn’t signify. Do you genuinely believe that administering a healthcare system for 60 million people is radically different from administering one for 300 million? Even if you do, so what? Medicaid is administered by the states. Only the money and broad policy come from the feds. There’s little reason to believe an American UHC plan would be much different. Why can’t Ohio do it if the UK can? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/114 "2009-07-10T11:10:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You don’t think it’s a dumb idea? Excellent. Let’s get on with it then. I do think comparing the US to the UK or Canada is a dumb idea. > [@](#): > > To address what I think you meant: that doesn’t signify. Do you genuinely believe that administering a healthcare system for 60 million people is radically different from administering one for 300 million? Yes > [@](#): > > Even if you do, so what? Medicaid is administered by the states. Only the money and broad policy come from the feds. There’s little reason to believe an American UHC plan would be much different. > > Why can’t Ohio do it if the UK can? Ohio probably could. I don’t want to be forced into whatever California would come up with either. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/115 "2009-07-10T11:41:41Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Those insurance corporations have more controls on them, that I can use, than the government. My vote has an order of magnitude more power to effect change than my threat to take my business elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/116 "2009-07-10T13:59:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > My vote has an order of magnitude more power to effect change than my threat to take my business elsewhere. Your vote by itself is immaterial, but you threatening a private insurance company with the insurance commissioner, the BBB or a local news station tends to get results. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/117 "2009-07-10T14:30:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Even if you do, so what? Medicaid is administered by the states. Only the money and broad policy come from the feds. There’s little reason to believe an American UHC plan would be much different. > > Why can’t Ohio do it if the UK can? Note that Canada doesn’t have a national health care plan. Canada has a bunch of provincial health care plans which are heavily subsidized by the federal government provided that they meet certain minimum requirements (universal coverage being the most important), and are therefore broadly similar but differ in detail. This is a product of the Canadian constitution, which specifically identifies health care as a provincial responsibility, but there should be no reason why a similar setup wouldn’t be feasible in the US ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/118 "2009-07-10T14:49:27Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Your vote by itself is immaterial, but you threatening a private insurance company with the insurance commissioner, the BBB or a local news station tends to get results. I have done all three, and have a letter in which they scoffed at my puny attempts. I will not rest until they have to compete with a public health insurance provider; I hope it drives them all out of business. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/119 "2009-07-10T15:39:16Z")
[Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org by People's Action](http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/mythbusting-canadian-health-care-part-i) This is an article which will provide info on what Canadian Health Care is and is not. I have Canadian friends, (I live near the border) some times they bitch, but none has ever said they would rather have our system. They laugh when it is suggested. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/120 "2009-07-10T15:59:02Z")
> [@Cemetery\_Savior](#): > > Sorry…you get to pick your doctor, but not all doctors accept Medicaid and/or Medicare. Error in set definition. > > -Cem You do know that this is also true for many private insurance plans, right? You can go to that doctor, but your insurance is not going to pay for it. The number of people who can exercise any genuine choice of physician is quite small. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151.md?page=7)