Insurance company poopyheads

[curlcoat]

@Broomstick

Ah, the truth at last! Yes, I absolutely believe that you don’t care. About anyone other than yourself.

In that case, it was all about you - I don’t care what you say. OTOH, it’s not all about you as I can not care what you say, yet still care about others.

Oh, stop acting like I’m mailing you a fucking itemized bill! Other taxpayers fund the SSDI that you collect monthly, yet you won’t return the favor to anyone else.

That comparison didn’t work the first 75 times you tried it - why do you think it will the 76th?

Actually, ALL prisoners are guaranteed health care. Yet no unconvicted citizen ever is. I feel that is a huge, fundamental flaw in our society.

And, I agreed.

And, contrary to your complaints YES, WE CAN AFFORD A SOCIAL SAFETY NET. The only hitch is that EVERYONE has to pay into it, including greedy, wealthy, disabled misers such as yourself.

And where, pray tell, am I to get the money to pay for this new handout? Seeing as how I am far from wealthy.

Because other people in other countries manage to exist comfortably paying much higher taxes than in the US, so my conclusion is that if raising taxes for the common good of society gets you into financial trouble then you are mismanaging your finances.

Well, I agree that the US government is mismanaging my finances, but other than that what you say is totally without support.

Oh, horrors - you might get into financial trouble! Whereas there are people like my husband who, due to health problems beyond their control, ARE in financial trouble and even imminent danger of death.

So, because you say you are in financial trouble due to conditions beyond your control, you think it just ducky that I should be forced into the same place? Which one of us is it that is being “bitter & greedy” now?

Yes, but we can make it more fair than it would otherwise be. Shrugging your shoulders as you just did strikes me as selfish and lazy.

At what point would it be “more fair” enough for you? When everyone is in the same boat you are? Or just most of us?

I prefer to change my native country into a better one.

If that is actually true, quit demanding that we continue to treat millions of people like they cannot get by without help from Big Brother, and quit demanding that we extend that attitude towards millions more.

Of course, your own state is completely fucked right now, isn’t it? Maybe that should be an indication that you Californians are not doing things right, huh?

No, the state isn’t. One of the big (probably the biggest) reasons we are in such financial trouble is we pay out so much money in welfare and other handouts to so many people that pay little if any taxes. California is a great example of what happens when the government is allowed/encouraged to run peoples lives. The only reason anyone who makes any decent money lives here is because of the climate.

In my world, leaving people to bleed to death when you could help them is immoral and despicable - yet that is what you advocate.

Well, in my world we don’t make up wild claims to try to “win” a debate on the internet… :rolleyes:

Yes, healthcare affects ALL of us

Yes it does. Why is it that you think it would be better for us to all have the same, lesser, healthcare instead of doing what the US was based on and used to do? Which was provide the opportunity, provide the choices, let people become what they will. When did the US become a place where people like you work so hard to narrow those choices?

[curlcoat]

@Broomstick

Given how paranoid some people are about he peasents storming their homes and stealing all their stuff (I’m looking at you, curlcoat)

Uh, and you get this new story from where?

[curlcoat]

@Broomstick

What about people who planned and worked hard and got hit by some disaster? Should we just leave them out in the cold? Is that “fair”?

Let’s see if you can actually do this. Create a situation where someone, or a couple, worked hard and acted responsibly yet ended up in a disasterous situation (your choice as to what that means) they couldn’t recover from, all thru no fault of their own. To the point that they would have no access to healthcare. The only requirement is that you make it realistic - no invasion from Mars or anything like that.

[gonzomax]

Home - National Coalition on Health Care A mere 68 percent of bankruptcies are due to health problems. Unless you believe that getting sick is their fault.

[Broomstick]

@curlcoat

Let’s see if you can actually do this. Create a situation where someone, or a couple, worked hard and acted responsibly yet ended up in a disasterous situation (your choice as to what that means) they couldn’t recover from, all thru no fault of their own. To the point that they would have no access to healthcare. The only requirement is that you make it realistic - no invasion from Mars or anything like that.

I suspect that there are a LOT of examples of that from Hurricane Katrina - the city lost what, about 2/3 of its population?

Or, from my own neighborhood - last August Griffith, Indiana was hit by a tornado. About a dozen families had their homes entirely destroyed, and several businesses were likewise wiped out. At least two families we being provided shelter at a local hotel when the area flooded in September and those families lost what few possessions they had salvaged in the floods. Meanwhile, the adults - all of whom had been employed at the local mall that was also hit (and is still unrepaired, by the way) had lost their jobs. Tell me how a tornado, flood, and loss of employment was somehow THEIR fault?

[curlcoat]

@aruvqan

not sure if anybody has mentioned this downthread … certain employers refuse to enroll part time employees in the insurance/benefits programs. They also tend to refuse to schedule people with enough hours to qualify as full time, and able to get benefits. When you combine this with paying somewhere in the bottom of the pay scale, you end up with families making barely enough money to survive, and certainly not enough money to get independant insurance. So, they are working 30-35 hours, and getting no benefits.

cough walmart cough

Do you think it is responsible of people to raise a family if the sole source of income is 35 hrs a week at WalMart?

[curlcoat]

@gonzomax

Home - National Coalition on Health Care A mere 68 percent of bankruptcies are due to health problems. Unless you believe that getting sick is their fault.

All that (rather biased) site showed was that having a serious illness contributed to the bankruptcies (which these days doesn’t mean what it used to). No mention of anything else that created the situation where there was no money to cover the expenses. How many of these “healthcare caused” bankruptcies were really just the case of the last straw on the camel’s back?

[Jenaroph]

@curlcoat

Do you think it is responsible of people to raise a family if the sole source of income is 35 hrs a week at WalMart?

C’mon, use that lump above your neck for half a second here. Businesses are shutting down all over the country. You had your kid 10 years ago when things were good. You lose your job. Wal-Mart is what’s left. What do you do? “Well, sorry, baby, it’s irresponsible to raise a family on a Wal-Mart salary, so it’s off to the orphanage with you”?

[curlcoat]

@Broomstick

I suspect that there are a LOT of examples of that from Hurricane Katrina - the city lost what, about 2/3 of its population?

Or, from my own neighborhood - last August Griffith, Indiana was hit by a tornado. About a dozen families had their homes entirely destroyed, and several businesses were likewise wiped out. At least two families we being provided shelter at a local hotel when the area flooded in September and those families lost what few possessions they had salvaged in the floods. Meanwhile, the adults - all of whom had been employed at the local mall that was also hit (and is still unrepaired, by the way) had lost their jobs. Tell me how a tornado, flood, and loss of employment was somehow THEIR fault?

None of which is what I asked for. Apparently you either don’t understand the difference between “someone, or a couple” and large groups of people, or you are unable to understand the concept of living responsibly.

BTW, if a tornado came by and took out our house, and my husband’s place of work (doubtful, since he doesn’t work at a mall) we would still have money to live on until insurance rebuilt the house. That is some of what responsible people do.

[curlcoat]

@Jenaroph

C’mon, use that lump above your neck for half a second here. Businesses are shutting down all over the country. You had your kid 10 years ago when things were good. You lose your job. Wal-Mart is what’s left. What do you do? “Well, sorry, baby, it’s irresponsible to raise a family on a Wal-Mart salary, so it’s off to the orphanage with you”?

Snort. Ok, one by one -

“You had your kid 10 years ago when things were good.” And in 10 years, you have no savings? Or did you assume the good times would go on forever, and buy a couple of new cars, a house with a big mortgage, a bunch of toys, rack up several thousand in credit card debt?

“You lose your job. Wal-Mart is what’s left.” If Wal-Mart is all that is left for you, ever, then I suggest you get that education you should have gotten way back when and work your way back up. Ditto your spouse.

“Well, sorry, baby, it’s irresponsible to raise a family on a Wal-Mart salary, so it’s off to the orphanage with you” 10 years old is not a baby. Let’s leave the emotional exaggerations to Broomstick, OK?

[Carol_Stream]

@Broomstick

And, contrary to your complaints YES, WE CAN AFFORD A SOCIAL SAFETY NET. The only hitch is that EVERYONE has to pay into it, including greedy, wealthy, disabled misers such as yourself.

EVERYONE has to pay into it? You mean like the almost half of the population that doesn’t pay any federal income taxes at all? How are those people paying into it? Hell, the plan announced this afternoon is that a surcharge on people making > $1M will pay for it. EVERYONE?

[Fear_Itself]

@curlcoat

BTW, if a tornado came by and took out our house, and my husband’s place of work (doubtful, since he doesn’t work at a mall) we would still have money to live on until insurance rebuilt the house. That is some of what responsible people do.

So responsible people never, ever get caught on the wrong side of circumstances, because they think of everything, and are always one step ahead of calamity.

Life is what happens while you are making other plans, little girl. Some day when you grow up, life will teach you that lesson, whether you want it or not.

[gonzomax]

@curlcoat

All that (rather biased) site showed was that having a serious illness contributed to the bankruptcies (which these days doesn’t mean what it used to). No mention of anything else that created the situation where there was no money to cover the expenses. How many of these “healthcare caused” bankruptcies were really just the case of the last straw on the camel’s back?

To make it even fun for you, many of them actually had health insurance. They just got denied what they paid for.

[gonzomax]

Medical Bills Cause Most Bankruptcies - The New York Times Heres an article showing that even with health insurance you are vulnerable.

[Maia_s_Well]

First of all, thanks again to everyone who is contributing to this thread. I’m reading it, bookmarking and wading through the links provided, etc., and between this thread and the one in GD, I am learning more than I ever thought there was about American healthcare problems and possible solutions. Many, many thanks.

Second, wanted to provide a brief update on my struggles with Untied:

After 117 minutes total talking to Untied reps in the last couple days(that’s actual talk time, not counting time I spent on hold), one out of seven claims has been reprocessed and paid (at least, they say they’ve paid them). They have twice told me they will submit the other claims for “reconsideration”, but no sign they’ve done that yet.

Everything else is still fucked up and my brain is hurting.

Starting the process of filing a complaint with the state insurance commissioner today.

[Jenaroph]

@curlcoat

Snort. Ok, one by one -

“You had your kid 10 years ago when things were good.” And in 10 years, you have no savings? Or did you assume the good times would go on forever, and buy a couple of new cars, a house with a big mortgage, a bunch of toys, rack up several thousand in credit card debt?

Actually, “you” had savings, but they got wiped out by your wife’s breast cancer treatments that your insurance failed to cover completely. Then, while you were diligently building those savings back up, the recession hit home and you lost your job.

“You lose your job. Wal-Mart is what’s left.” If Wal-Mart is all that is left for you, ever, then I suggest you get that education you should have gotten way back when and work your way back up. Ditto your spouse.

Oh, you’ve got your bachelor’s. And are still paying off your student loans. But when the software company you worked for closed you spent 3 months applying to different places, competing with the 438 other people in your town that had also been laid off recently, and WalMart was the only place within 40 miles that was hiring. Drive farther? Not in the car that you were already planning to replace before your wife got sick. Move someplace where the jobs are more plentiful? With what money? Who’s gonna wanna buy your house when the local job market’s so crappy?

Look, as** Fear Itself **is saying, if you don’t think it can happen and does, you’re naive. Hindsight is 20/20 and it’s awfully easy to look back on a decision made in good faith and say “well that’s where you went wrong, you stupid stupid person you” whether it was getting a degree 15 years ago in a field that’s now becoming obsolete or buying a house next to a nascent teenage arsonist. Or marrying the woman with the predilection to develop breast cancer. How many financial disasters are you prepared to handle back to back? It doesn’t take many to wipe most people out, no matter how much they save or how responsibly they plan. And the characterization that **all **those who have been wiped out “bought a couple of new cars, a house with a big mortgage, had a bunch of toys and several thousand in credit card debt” is neither helpful nor accurate.

[curlcoat]

@Fear_Itself

So responsible people never, ever get caught on the wrong side of circumstances, because they think of everything, and are always one step ahead of calamity.

Life is what happens while you are making other plans, little girl. Some day when you grow up, life will teach you that lesson, whether you want it or not.

Honey, I’m almost 52 years old. I have been so poor that I ate napkin sandwiches and weighed under 100 lbs on a 5"'6" frame. My father and my first husband were abusive, and I ended up on my own with only a high school education and no money.

And what I learned from those years was not victimhood, expecting that the government/whatever would take care of me. I learned to pay attention to what was going on around me, to plan for all probabilities and as many improbabilities as possible, and to work my ass off. Yes, shit happens, but what separates the responsible from the irresponsible is how they respond to that shit.

No, we cannot plan for everything, but there is nothing that could happen that would cause me to expect that anyone would support me, other than whatever insurance I may have to cover whatever happened. Even now, comfortably middle class with apparently plenty of retirement funds, I am still very cheap and refuse to waste money on anything.

[curlcoat]

@gonzomax

To make it even fun for you, many of them actually had health insurance. They just got denied what they paid for.

Which doesn’t address what I said, but what else is new?

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0…-bankruptcies/ Heres an article showing that even with health insurance you are vulnerable.

This would apply to me if I depended on insurance to pay my bills. I don’t.

[Fear_Itself]

@curlcoat

I learned to pay attention to what was going on around me, to plan for all probabilities and as many improbabilities as possible, and to work my ass off. Yes, shit happens, but what separates the responsible from the irresponsible is how they respond to that shit.

But that’s not what you said upthread:

BTW, if a tornado came by and took out our house, and my husband’s place of work (doubtful, since he doesn’t work at a mall) we would still have money to live on until insurance rebuilt the house. That is some of what responsible people do.

Which is a fatuous tautology; responsible people are always prepared, so those who are not prepared for everything are irresponsible. If you are 52, you sure haven’t learned much in those years, because you sound like a naive 20-something.

For the record, I am older than you, Honey.

[curlcoat]

@Jenaroph

Actually, “you” had savings, but they got wiped out by your wife’s breast cancer treatments that your insurance failed to cover completely. Then, while you were diligently building those savings back up, the recession hit home and you lost your job.

And? The average age for women to get breast cancer is apparently 50 - “you” have no retirement funds or other assests? “You” are now on the street?

Oh, you’ve got your bachelor’s. And are still paying off your student loans. But when the software company you worked for closed you spent 3 months applying to different places, competing with the 438 other people in your town that had also been laid off recently, and WalMart was the only place within 40 miles that was hiring. Drive farther? Not in the car that you were already planning to replace before your wife got sick. Move someplace where the jobs are more plentiful? With what money? Who’s gonna wanna buy your house when the local job market’s so crappy?

Then “you” ride it out, tho this is obviously a different “you” than above, since I can’t imagine a 50 year old is still paying off student loans. So what sickness did the wife have that you were unable to replace the junker car? Breast cancer at 25? Do you see how far you have to reach to come up with a scenario where the people were completely responsible?

How many financial disasters are you prepared to handle back to back? It doesn’t take many to wipe most people out, no matter how much they save or how responsibly they plan.

Those are two separate things. Far too many people these days - “most people” - are carrying far more debt that they could possibly deal with should some “financial disaster” come along. They don’t have much in the way of savings and they spend more than they earn as well as carrying big credit card debt.

You may not like thinking that a large portion of people going thru bankruptcy probably brought it on themselves, but the facts seem to support that they did.