# Insurance policies and the Death Penalty **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 18, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175 "2005-03-18T18:43:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MrPeabody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@MrPeabody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrPeabody)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175/21 "2005-03-19T04:04:03Z")
this is what I tried to post. It’s Canada but its a start Should the families of criminals killed while committing a crime get survivors’ benefits from insurance companies? Two men accidentally died while committing criminal acts. Should their widows be entitled to their life insurance? The insurer said no. But the Supreme Court of Canada has now said yes. In January 1994, Roger Arbic was killed when a bomb he was attempting to plant in a car at Montreal’s Dorval Airport suddenly exploded. His wife, Danielle Goulet, claimed the proceeds of his life insurance policy, worth $50,000. Then, in April 1996, Paul Oldfield died in Bolivia when one of 30 condoms of cocaine he was carrying in his stomach erupted, causing a heart attack. His wife, Maria, sought the $250,000 from his life insurance. When it came time to pay up, however, the insurer in both cases, Transamerica Life Insurance Company of Canada, resisted, stating that a criminal should not be allowed to profit from his own crime. But in March, the Supreme Court of Canada indicated that to deny the beneficiaries the insurance proceeds would be to penalize the innocent parties for the insureds’ own crimes. It ruled in favour of the widows. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175/22 "2005-03-19T04:08:23Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > The clause in the life insurance policies that have been documented over and over in this thread show that **if a person dies because of illegal activity** , the insurance company doesn’t pay out. This is where the lawyers would enter the scene. The death penalty would be the cause of death, not his illegal act. Of course, the death is the ultimate result of the act, but the act itself didn’t cause death. (Is that convoluted enough? If you understood it I can try again) 🙂 The only thing I know about insurance is where to mail the check, so don’t take anything I say about the matter as fact. I’m just looking at a huge technical loophole that a team of lawyers could stroll through. I have a BIL who’s a family law attorney. Maybe I’ll see what the lawyer says. You _know_ there will be a few involved in something like this. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175/23 "2005-03-19T04:17:20Z")
Sorry for the hijack, but is there any way to find out if my mom had a life insurance policy? ---
**Author:** ![MrPeabody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@MrPeabody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrPeabody)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175/24 "2005-03-19T04:37:27Z")
Here is a US case that illustrates the difference in payment for a life policy and an accidental death policy In this case the insurance company quickly paid the life insurance portion of the loss but refused to pay accidental death benefit due to the commission f a criminal act Here is a US case that illustrates the difference in payment for a life policy and an accidental death policy In this case the insurance company quickly paid the life insurance portion of the loss but refused to pay accidental death benefit due to the commission f a criminal act. [http://www.iand.uscourts.gov/iand/decisions.nsf/44ef38b26a83d2e58625693d005dd094/1113a84216cec23a86256aab005a2538?OpenDocument](http://www.iand.uscourts.gov/iand/decisions.nsf/44ef38b26a83d2e58625693d005dd094/1113a84216cec23a86256aab005a2538?OpenDocument) ---
**Author:** ![MrPeabody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@MrPeabody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrPeabody)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175/25 "2005-03-19T04:40:42Z")
Johnny Check this link from the MIB Medical Information Bureau [http://www.mib.com/html/lost-life-insurance.html](http://www.mib.com/html/lost-life-insurance.html) also see [www.steveshorr.com/life.htm](http://www.steveshorr.com/life.htm) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175/26 "2005-03-19T05:00:40Z")
**stpauler** and **MrPeabody** , since we have you here maybe you can answer something I’ve wondered about for years. Can you open a life insurance policy on a family member without them knowing? The reason I ask is my MIL doesn’t have a policy and being such a morbid subject we’re not sure how to bring up the subject without herethinking we’re we trying to profit from her death. ---
**Author:** ![MrPeabody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@MrPeabody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrPeabody)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175/27 "2005-03-19T05:09:19Z")
Not in my state. You can be the owner of the policy but she would have to sign as the insured. hope this helps ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175/28 "2005-03-19T05:22:07Z")
Thanks, **MrPeabody**. I’ll see if my sister turns anything up in the house, and use the resource you linked to if she doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175/29 "2005-03-19T21:32:26Z")
**stpauler** OK, I have pulled a straight life policy out of the file drawer, and will quote the pertinent parts > [@](#): > > **Entire contract** This policy is a legal contract between you and the Company. It consists of this policy, a copy of the application and any attached benfits, provisions or endorsements. Translation: If it ain’t written in what I am holding in my hand, it don’t count. > [@](#): > > **Incontestability.** We will not contest or void this policy or a benefit provision after it has been in force, while the Insured is living, for 2 years, except for: > 1)Non-payment of premiums; and > 2) Benefits payable under any disability or accidental death provision. Translation: After two years the company is on the hook, unless you don’t pay the premiums. However they can contest if a death is accidental\*. Now do not mix up the base death benefit (the policy) with an AD&D **rider**. They are not the same thing. **stpauler** this appears to be what you are doing. Of course an execution is not an accidental death, but it is a death. The base policy would pay, not the AD rider > [@](#): > > **Policy Settlement** Upon receipt of due proof of the insured death, the proceeds will be paid to the named beneficiary. (Lots of wording about payment options and interest due on the benefits. Exclusions listed: **NONE** Translation: send proof to the company that I am dead, they pay. > [@](#): > > **Suicide.** Our liability will be limited to the amount of premiums paid if, within 1 year from policy date, the Insured dies by suicide, whther sane or insane. Translation: Don’t off yourself in the first year (Most policys are 2 years, I was surprised that this one was only 1) If you do kill yourself in that first year, you beneficiary can’t argue that it was because you were nucking futs, and the company should pay. > [@](#): > > **Modification.** The only way your policy may be modified is by written agreement signed by an officer of the company. No agent or other person has the authority to change your policy or to waive any of its terms or provisions. Translation: If you ain’t an officer of the company your opinion can’t change what is written here, and then it has to be in writing. There is all the relevant portions of one of my life insurance policies. Please tell me where it says that it would not pay if I died either when committing a crime, or if the state sent me to the gas chamber. Oh and as long as we are comparing lengths of our Johnsons, I spent 8 years as a rep and manager for Metropolitan Life. So unless you can come up with a policy (not an AD&D Rider, mind you, but a policy) that contradicts what I quoted above, you are wrong. \*autoerotic asphyxiation is one of those type of deaths that can wind up in court arguing if it was an accidental death or a suicide. Particularly if you die that way during the first year or two. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-policies-and-the-death-penalty/295175.md?page=1)