# Insurrection Act on April 20? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 1, 2025, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453 "2025-04-01T15:09:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/21 "2025-04-19T20:30:35Z")
Well I’ll be damned. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/22 "2025-04-19T20:47:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Update: surprisingly enough, Hegseth and Noem will recommend that Trump not invoke the Insurrection Act. 🤔 Usually, trump makes a point of NOT taking sensible advice when he gets it. But these are two of his favorite bootlickers, so maybe he’ll listen. Aside: Damn, that Newsweek site is hard to read! Popups galore! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/23 "2025-04-20T03:00:10Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Slight digression… > > _“Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler’s collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade. Hitler’s speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist.”_ > > –Vanity Fair, 7/2015 Not too surprising. All one needs to do to make a T\*\*\*p speech is to take a Hitler speech, translate it to English, then in Word do a search and replace and substitute “illegals” for “Jews”. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/24 "2025-04-20T03:39:48Z")
My take: a significant number of the career military are not sufficiently MAGA, in Hegseth’s opinion, to go along with this. Declaring martial law when the armed forces are _not_ in lockstep with the administration on the reasons behind it, generally not a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/25 "2025-04-20T03:48:42Z")
Also, Elmo has kinda taken a giant hatchet to veteran’s benefits, and that doesn’t seem like a good idea if you’re planning on using those people to prop up your regime. My younger sister who works in NBC training/response in the Army has decided not to re-enlist because of what’s been going on. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/26 "2025-04-20T03:51:54Z")
I don’t believe Hegseth and Noem would make that “recommendation” unless they were told to make it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/27 "2025-04-20T03:54:47Z")
Trump isn’t so much calling the shots these days as he is just doing whatever is suggested to him by the last person he talked to who flattered his ego. It’s possible that the Hegmeister had a moment of clarity and realized that inciting a civil war might go badly. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/28 "2025-04-20T04:50:40Z")
You really think Trump decides whether to invoke the Insurrection Act based on what Kristi Noem and Hegseth tell him to do??? He knew _exactly_ what condition the border was in, and it hasn’t changed a bit. The reports are all for show. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/29 "2025-04-20T04:59:00Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > You really think Trump decides whether to invoke the Insurrection Act based on what Kristi Noem and Hegseth tell him to do??? I think the people who get their way are the ones capable of convincing Trump that it was his idea. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/30 "2025-04-20T11:41:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Also, Elmo has kinda taken a giant hatchet to veteran’s benefits, Specifics? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/31 "2025-04-20T12:49:26Z")
Trump already sent troops to the Mexican border. Looking at this Associated Press report from last week, the military may already be doing Insurrection Act type activities: [President turns over federal land to military](https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2025/apr/15/president-turns-over-federal-land-to-military/) > [@](#): > > The officials said the issue is still under review in the Pentagon, but even as any legal review goes on, the administration’s intent is to have troops detain migrants at the border. . . . > > People not authorized to be in that area could be arrested by the Army’s security forces, said the officials . . . > > Any migrants in the country illegally who are detained by military personnel on those lands would be turned over to local civilian law enforcement agencies, the officials said. The coming Hegseth-Noem report could recommend the same activities with or without the red flag Insurrection Act invocation. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/32 "2025-04-20T13:58:36Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > > [@Smapti](#): > > > > Also, Elmo has kinda taken a giant hatchet to veteran’s benefits, > > Specifics? Cite? > **[DOGE: Wielding a hatchet at the VA](https://theweek.com/politics/doge-hatchet-va-veteran-affairs-federal)** > > The Trump administration has cut thousands of Veteran Affairs jobs and is considering eliminating 80,000 more There had been pushback: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/RsBw0BTnZTU/maxresdefault.jpg "Duckworth on The Daily Show Slams Trump and Musk for Making America Weaker, Sicker and Less Secure") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsBw0BTnZTU) Attacking veterans’ benefits is a genuine [“Fuck around and find out,””](https://www.nps.gov/articles/the-1932-bonus-army.htm) scenario because even though only a small fraction of military veterans have actually experienced combat, they also have the skills and determination to fight for what was promised them, and I don’t mean just in a court of law. Even Ronald Reagan, who despite promoting an image of being pro-military [tried to cut veterans’ benefits](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-01-02-mn-1667-story.html) repeatedly, ended up [elevating the Veterans Administration to a Cabinet-level department](https://department.va.gov/history/100-objects/object-41-creating-the-department-of-veterans-affairs/). Trump has his own private militia in the form of January 6 pardonees and the people surrounding him who will follow him into a giant oil fryer searching for french fries, but veterans in general, even those inclined toward MAGA, are not going to be very pleased about losing VA benefits (not just Veterans Health but disability, low interest loans, and various other assistance) despite legitimate gripes about how slow and inefficient the VA is. Veterans are also around 30% of the federal workforce, so every time DOGE does a sweeping cut through entire departments and agencies, they are cutting vets. As for invoking the Insurrection Act, I think someone just did the calculus and realized that now is not the time and/or that the military isn’t really constituted for domestic law enforcement and sweeping immigration raids. Which is not to say that it isn’t coming, just that it isn’t here today. Unlike virtually all other federal departments and agencies, [the Department of Homeland Security is hiring](https://www.dhs.gov/homeland-security-careers/hiring-event), and it was basically designed from the outset to be a _Schutzstaffel_-type paramilitary organization with [its own dedicated courts system](https://www.justice.gov/eoir/immigration-court-administrative-control-list), and has Trump himself has expressed (and as the regime has already demonstrated) [he doesn’t just intend to limit deportation to undocumented immigrants](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/homegrowns-trump-doubles-sending-convicted-us-citizens-foreign/story?id=120802863). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/33 "2025-04-20T14:11:27Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Unlike virtually all other federal departments and agencies, [the Department of Homeland Security is hiring](https://www.dhs.gov/homeland-security-careers/hiring-event), and it was basically designed from the outset to be a _Schutzstaffel_-type paramilitary organization with [its own dedicated courts system](https://www.justice.gov/eoir/immigration-court-administrative-control-list), and has Trump himself has expressed (and as the regime has already demonstrated) [he doesn’t just intend to limit deportation to undocumented immigrants](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/homegrowns-trump-doubles-sending-convicted-us-citizens-foreign/story?id=120802863). They are indeed hiring. About a month ago I had an FBI agent show up at my place of employment doing a background check on a former employee I had supervised who had applied to Homeland Security. Rattled me for a brief moment. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/34 "2025-04-20T14:34:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Also, Elmo has kinda taken a giant hatchet to veteran’s benefits, “Veterans **benefits**.” The _The Week_ article talks about cutting 80,000 **jobs.** Thanks. I actually receive a monthly check from the Veterans Administration. Haven’t heard anything yet about it. Yet. ETA: terminology clarification- > The terms “Veterans Administration” and “Department of Veterans Affairs” (VA) refer to the same government agency, but “Veterans Administration” was the name used before 1989 when the agency was elevated to a cabinet-level department. Currently, the agency is known as the Department of Veterans Affairs or simply the VA. I did not know this until I researched the names. Ignorance fought! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/35 "2025-04-20T14:52:24Z")
Missed edit window. No current cuts to veterans’ **benefits**. Don’t know how long this will remain true. This is from google search. > No, “DOGE” (Department of Government Efficiency) is not cutting veterans’ benefits. While DOGE is implementing cuts and streamlining the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), including reducing the workforce, the VA Secretary, Doug Collins, has stated that these changes are not intended to affect veterans’ healthcare or benefits. He has clarified that the focus is on ensuring efficient operations and directing resources towards veterans’ services 1. Blahblahblah. 2. We don’t trust any assurances that come out of the trump admin. 3. Lots of these veterans own guns, so maybe the trumpers will think _(excuse the expression)_ twice before taking income away from veterans. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/36 "2025-04-20T15:04:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Lots of these veterans own guns, so maybe the trumpers will think _(excuse the expression)_ twice before taking income away from veterans. The idea of veterans rebelling is just not part of the calculus. There has never, ever been even a hint of veterans **as a group** being even mildly anti-Trump. They are disproportionately Trumpist, and Trumpists don’t change their minds easily. The idea that Americans with guns will rebel against the Trump administration is absolute fantasy. The reason the Trump administration likely won’t reduce veterans’ benefits is that they don’t want to. There’s no political reason to do so and they’re not really all that concentrated on saving money. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > As for invoking the Insurrection Act, I think someone just did the calculus and realized that now is not the time and/or that the military isn’t really constituted for domestic law enforcement and sweeping immigration raids. Which is not to say that it isn’t coming, just that it isn’t here today. The Trumpist plan for the military is very inchoate right now. On one hand the latest military budget is bigger than ever, but on the other, we know Hegseth has been ordered to prepare for significant cuts at some indeterminate point. The Trump administration has fifty things it wants to do but they all contradict one another. So there are two other possibilities here: 1. The Department of Defense has no idea what the hell is going on and decided to advise against a massive cost increase and resource sink they are nervous about committing to, and/or 2. There is a turf dispute happening between DoD and DHS. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/37 "2025-04-20T15:18:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There’s no political reason to do so This is the crux of it. In fact, there is a solid political reason _not to._ > [@](#): > > and they’re not really all that concentrated on saving money. Correct. None of this is about saving money. That’s the cover story. > [@RickJay](#): > > The idea that Americans with guns will rebel against the Trump administration is absolute fantasy. Aw, lemme have my freakin’ fantasy. A girl hasta dream or what’s a heaven for? ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/38 "2025-04-20T17:54:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The idea that Americans with guns will rebel against the Trump administration is **absolute fantasy**. They said that about tRump getting the GOP nomination before 2016. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/39 "2025-04-20T18:31:26Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > No current cuts to veterans’ **benefits**. Don’t know how long this will remain true. This is from google search. > > > No, “DOGE” (Department of Government Efficiency) is not cutting veterans’ benefits. While DOGE is implementing cuts and streamlining the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), including reducing the workforce, the **VA Secretary, Doug Collins, has stated that these changes are not intended to affect veterans’ healthcare or benefits.** He has clarified that the focus is on ensuring efficient operations and directing resources towards veterans’ services > > 1. Blahblahblah. > 2. We don’t trust any assurances that come out of the trump admin. > 3. Lots of these veterans own guns, so maybe the trumpers will think _(excuse the expression)_ twice before taking income away from veterans. “Not intended” is a weasel phrase. If they fire huge numbers of VA employees, it will very likely impact services, whatever the intentions were. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453/40 "2025-04-20T18:36:02Z")
The keys to shrinking the military while not _seeming_ like you are doing so: 1. Spend money on impractical things, rather than on people. 2. Move the troops to domestic, policing roles. Posse Commitatus is a direct impediment to the second. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurrection-act-on-april-20/1016453.md?page=3)