# Intact America \[relative prevalence of circumcision\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163 "2011-03-10T12:44:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/21 "2011-03-10T22:33:40Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Yes. Often done when the boy was older (say a preteen or teen) and still without anesthetic as punishment. Girls got their clitoris sprayed with acid for the same reason. Girls now have the right to intact genitalia while boys do not. You’re probably talking about [John Harvey Kellogg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg#Drastic_measures). > [@](#): > > Kellogg worked on the rehabilitation of masturbators, often employing extreme measures, even mutilation, on both sexes. He was an advocate of circumcising young boys to curb masturbation and applying phenol (carbolic acid) to a young woman’s clitoris. In his Plain Facts for Old and Young,[7] he wrote > > “A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.” > > and > > “In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid [phenol] to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement.” > > He also recommended, to prevent children from this “solitary vice”, bandaging or tying their hands, covering their genitals with patented cages, sewing the foreskin shut and electrical shock.[7] Kellogg was a quack, even if he was famous in his day. His ideas didn’t represent mainstream science even in the 19th century, when they thought masturbation was a sin. I doubt if more than the tiniest fraction of circumcisions were ever done by him or his disciples. He also wrote that in 1877. Whether he kept up the obession about sex for his whole life is debated, and he wasn’t as influential in that field as with dietary concerns. Kellogg is about as relevant to this discussion as mesmerism is. If you have an ax to grind, why not start yet another thread in GD on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Woo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Dr.Woo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Woo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/22 "2011-03-10T22:41:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Schnitte** :I’m not sure that’s an accurate description: I imagine that most American males were circumcised, not for any alleged health benefit, but for more nebulous reasons like “so he’ll look like Dad”, or even just “because that’s the way it always is”, with no deep thought put into it at all. And even the folks who claim it was because of the health benefits, at least some were just shopping around for a reason why they did it for no particular reason. Nowadays I think that’s pretty accurate. Back in 1969 when my son was born and I was asked to authorize the circumcision procedure, I did so based on the information I got from a few obstetrical textbooks I’d read. These books had two tidbits of information on the subject: 1.) Cancer of the penis occurs only in uncircumcised men and 2.) Treatment of penile carcinoma consists of surgery, up to and including amputation. Were I older I would have questioned these statements, but at the time they were good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/23 "2011-03-10T22:47:23Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Yeah, but didn’t you notice that most of the graves looked pretty old? Here’s a Wikipedia article with statistics on cremation in various countries: > > [Cremation by country - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cremation_rate) thought it was pretty interesting that cremation is practically universal in Japn. And my home state is middle of the pack among U.S. States. BTW, I’m circumcised. ---
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/24 "2011-03-12T04:42:40Z")
Are Canadians circumcised at birth? ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/25 "2011-03-12T04:57:06Z")
From my few experiences changing in the locker room at a hot spring in BC. I would say no, Canadians are not circumcised as much as Americans. The only time in my life I was in the minority in a locker room. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/26 "2011-03-12T06:06:49Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > thought it was pretty interesting that cremation is practically universal in Japn. And my home state is middle of the pack among U.S. States. > > BTW, I’m circumcised. Japan is running out of grave real estate FAST, cremation is almost a necessity. Some shrines have resorted to even more [interesting](http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/ns_asia/2009-11-06/106458785570.html) means. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/27 "2011-03-12T06:15:39Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > I have a clash in my family. On my Dad’s side they go for burial, on my Mum’s side cremation. > > My Mum always say if she goes first and my Dad buries her she will haunt him in retribution 😛 So, then there will be no change? ---
**Author:** ![king\_gorilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc29f/32.png) [@king\_gorilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_gorilla)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/28 "2011-03-12T12:43:35Z")
> [@Oukile](#): > > (French male here) > Are you guys telling me that most American males are circumcised ? :eek: Yup, most American males are circumcised. I remember there was 1 guy in school who wasn’t, and he caught a lot of crap for it. For whatever reason his argument that cutting off part of your penis being stupid didn’t convince the mob. For what it’s worth, I think it’s a stupid antiquities procedure. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/29 "2011-03-12T13:04:16Z")
Oh it is still done here. Just very, very rarely. The Jewish communities take care of themselves, but they are legally allowed to. Those with true medical reasons (phimosis, paraphimosis etc) are done on the NHS. Those wishing their sons to be circumcised for purely cultural reasons have the option of either: a) convincing a peadiatric surgeon or urologist to do it on the NHS b) paying said paediatric urologist to do it privately (and not all will). Any attempts at a “traditional” circumcision is treated as child abuse and looked upon very dimly, so most do go through legal channels. In all cases if it is done in hospital (either private or NHS) it will be done under anaesthetic (most often general) and usually not at birth. The bedside circumcision without anaesthesia is unheard of. The Royal Dutch Medical Association is strongly against the practice. cite: [http://knmg.artsennet.nl/Diensten/knmgpublicaties/KNMGpublicatie/Nontherapeutic-circumcision-of-male-minors-2010.htm](http://knmg.artsennet.nl/Diensten/knmgpublicaties/KNMGpublicatie/Nontherapeutic-circumcision-of-male-minors-2010.htm) I have had the experience of having a man explain to me that the NHS circumcision his son had wasn’t adequate, he felt not enough foreskin had been removed. He wanted it re-done to match his own- which had been done in Africa as part of a tribal initiation ceremony, and was, from what I could gather, particularly extreme. I gave him the contact details of a private paediatric surgeon, who I’m pretty sure wouldn’t have agree to operate on the child. ---
**Author:** ![heathen\_earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/13edae/32.png) [@heathen\_earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heathen_earthling)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/30 "2011-03-12T17:48:31Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > From my few experiences changing in the locker room at a hot spring in BC. I would say no, Canadians are not circumcised as much as Americans. > > The only time in my life I was in the minority in a locker room. I’m guessing not as much as Americans, but still much more commonly than Europeans. I have no idea which group would be the majority in Canada, because it isn’t really part of Canadian culture to ever see other guys’ wangs. If secular circumcision is so common in America, why do they still commonly joke about it as a Jewish thing? ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/31 "2011-03-12T17:54:12Z")
In Europe it’s done genrally by Muslims and Jews for religious reasons. I’ve never actually heard of ‘secualr circumision’ being practiced in Europe in recent times ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/32 "2011-03-12T18:10:56Z")
[Finding this wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision) took about 2 seconds. FWIW, I’m a 25 year old American and the fact that I’m uncut makes me pretty weird among my age group. When I was growing up I thought there was something wrong with me because every other guy’s penis looked a lot different than mine. Then when I discovered porn (consisting of 99% cut men) I got even more concerned. Most girls consider cut to be normal, so an uncut penis can cause some serious hangups if she’s not open minded. > [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > If secular circumcision is so common in America, why do they still commonly joke about it as a Jewish thing? A lot of this sort of stuff doesn’t make sense if you break it down. Why do white people joke about black people and chicken when white people eat chicken? ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/33 "2011-03-13T02:31:05Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > [Finding this wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision) took about 2 seconds. > > FWIW, I’m a 25 year old American and the fact that I’m uncut makes me pretty weird among my age group. When I was growing up I thought there was something wrong with me because every other guy’s penis looked a lot different than mine. Then when I discovered porn (consisting of 99% cut men) I got even more concerned. > > Most girls consider cut to be normal, so an uncut penis can cause some serious hangups if she’s not open minded. > > A lot of this sort of stuff doesn’t make sense if you break it down. Why do white people joke about black people and chicken when white people eat chicken? Comedian Robin Williams was/is “great” for misleading “jokes” about circumcision. One of his favorites is about the guy’s pants being so tight you could tell his religion. As for high rise mausoleums, you need only go to Nashville, TN, since 1973 - 20 stories tall x 3: [http://books.google.com/books?id=ImN5O3OudX0C&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=Nashville+multistory+mausoleum&source=bl&ots=CHZlOTvpaE&sig=ZuPWthlBSkjoLK9ypVDAceW41Bg&hl=en&ei=iip8TeOjM42Q0QHC9uncAw&sa=X&oi=book\_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false](http://books.google.com/books?id=ImN5O3OudX0C&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=Nashville+multistory+mausoleum&source=bl&ots=CHZlOTvpaE&sig=ZuPWthlBSkjoLK9ypVDAceW41Bg&hl=en&ei=iip8TeOjM42Q0QHC9uncAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false) And at Arlington National Cemetery, there are now above ground columbaria for veterans who died of natural causes, rather than in combat. And, in parts of India, they put the deceased in a fenced area and let the buzzards do their thing (no cite, saw a tv documentary years ago). ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/34 "2011-03-13T10:33:49Z")
Exposure of human remains on[Towers of Silence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Silence) is a particular custom of the Parsee (Zoroastrian) community in India. Hindus cremate and Muslims bury- how your dead are disposed of is a major marker of religion in India. ---
**Author:** ![tesseract](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@tesseract](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tesseract)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/35 "2011-03-15T07:35:05Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > I’m guessing not as much as Americans, but still much more commonly than Europeans. I have no idea which group would be the majority in Canada, because it isn’t really part of Canadian culture to ever see other guys’ wangs. I’m pretty sure I’ve been in multiple locker rooms in Canada, but admittedly never in the mens’. Do you have like private booths in there or something? ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163/36 "2011-03-15T08:16:27Z")
I had my son in 1993; I didn’t have him circumcised because at the time I had heard a lot of anecdotal information about uncut men having a great deal more pleasure, also that it wasn’t common elsewhere. (I live in the US.) I don’t have a cite for it, but I know I read somewhere that year was the peak year for a minor trend away from circumcising in that decade. I didn’t know it would at the time, and I didn’t mean to, but it has probably caused him some issues. Interestingly enough, despite being a _ **very** _ active girl for much of my life, I have still never seen an uncut penis in person. (Well, not a grownup one! Diaper-changing doesn’t count.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intact-america-relative-prevalence-of-circumcision/574163.md?page=1)